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Old 04-01-2016, 02:58 PM   #1
Lee Armory
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Default Zastava vs Cugir Factories

AKFiles,

What are your thoughts on rifles manufactured from Zastava and Cugir factories? Do you guys prefer one over the other?

Thank you!
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:05 PM   #2
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Both.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:11 PM   #3
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I prefer the Romanians if we are discussing current imports only. I'm perfectly satisfied with my WASR and AES-10B.

The zastavas are fine rifles and I own quite a few of them, but I have seen some questionable things happen with the N-PAP series. The most recent example is a thread on the other forum right now where a guy is posting pictures of his N-PAP after 3k rounds. He replaced some springs and the carrier which I think was probably unnecessary, but his top cover has a giant crack in it and some of the rivets look like they may be bending similar to the way the weak IO rivets have bent in the past. I've never seen a cracked top cover before, it could be a fluke, but it's just odd. His gun's issues lend some credibility to the "N-PAPs are made of garbage metal" discussion.

I'd prefer a Mitchell import over the current Zastava offerings. I think there may actually be some truth to the N-PAPs being made with subpar materials or techniques.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:13 PM   #4
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I love them both. I am partial to Zastava but really think they are equal. I believe Romania makes some more crude yet mean shit. I like Zastava's entire lineup. My favorite AK besides all the Russian originals are the M70 bulged trunnion models. There is a lot to be said about the M-70 series, in my opinion. But I am Johnny come late in this community because I was a broke ass soldier for the last decade almost. I always wanted a WASR, even when the WASR was thought to be a piece of shit, the WASR has a strong appeal to guys that want a rugged AK.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:14 PM   #5
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^^^^ WASR talk allover again? One example and an AKOU rollover and it becomes a www legend.

There are M70 O-PAP, M90, M77 etc., as well as N-PAP.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:15 PM   #6
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There is a lot to be said about a chainsaw cut furniture set on a WASR, no dimples, and scratches all over the receiver. The WASR cries to be held.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:19 PM   #7
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Most of the WASR laminate furniture is pretty nice. If necessary., a bit of clean up and fresh Amber Shellac.
You want chainsaw cut., try Egyptian laminate.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:24 PM   #8
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Which RPK do you prefer? The Romanian or Yugo? I would love the underfolding stamped RPK, the M-72? The underfolder with cooling fins.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
^^^^ WASR talk allover again? One example and an AKOU rollover and it becomes a www legend.
It's a lot more than one example now. There are quite a few incidents with the N-PAP having failures early in its life. At some point we have to stop discrediting those complaints and actually consider the possibility that there is a problem with the N-PAP. I think there is more than enough evidence now to say that there is likely some sort of issue with the N-PAP's metallurgy. We do not have any information on whether Zastava builds the N-PAP to the same quality as they build their rifles that are destined for military use. They could be saving costs somewhere in the building process in order to make their contract with Century more profitable or to keep the cost on the rifles low in order to compete with the WASR. We must also consider that the issues could have something to do with Century's modifications to the guns, but I don't think that's the case. If the N-PAP does suffer from some sort of quality issue then it is likely that the issue is present in their other civilian rifles as well.

The data we have so far is:

-Dozens of forum posts. Most are BS related to Tapco hammers or whatever, but a few of them have irregular issues in rifles with low round counts. Bent rivets, cracked top covers, unusual wear, etc.

-Rob's failed N-PAP. One example, but another issue to add to the list.

-The Henderson Defense opinion. This one is the most telling of all to me, these guys are actually firing thousands of rounds through the N-PAPs and they have more data on failure rates than any of us ever will.

"We only used the N-PAP's on the range and they failed miserably in a short amount of time. It appears, in my opinion, that the receivers were not heat-treated correctly and they cracked."
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
Which RPK do you prefer? The Romanian or Yugo? I would love the underfolding stamped RPK, the M-72? The underfolder with cooling fins.
Both
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:32 PM   #11
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Lots of great info guys, keep it coming. Cugir's workers are very nice people to speak with.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Armory View Post
Lots of great info guys, keep it coming. Cugir's workers are very nice people to speak with.
Are you planning on importing from them? Be careful not to get sued by century
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:04 PM   #13
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Own both.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:09 PM   #14
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If I had to pick one for me it would be Cugir/WASR. I like the Warsaw Pact standard. My ordeal with a PAP was less than stellar. They are not for me.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:20 PM   #15
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Cugir
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:29 PM   #16
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Cugir
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:38 PM   #17
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Zastava has better quality and a bit more diversity.

But unless you are a home builder vs buying at retail that also makes a difference.

M70 Milled receiver, fixed stock, threaded barrel - M70 (aka M64)
M70A Milled receiver, folding stock, threaded barrel - M70A (aka M64)
M72 Milled receiver, fixed stock, threaded barrel RPK - M72 (akaM64)
M70B Milled receiver, fixed stock, pressed barrel - M70B
M70AB Milled receiver, folding stock, pressed barrel - M70AB
M72B Milled receiver, fixed stock, pressed barrel RPK - M72B
M70B1 Stamped receiver, fixed stock, bulged trunnion - M70B1
M70AB1 Stamped receiver, folding stock, AKM trunnion - M70AB1
M70AB2 Stamped receiver, folding stock, bulged trunnion - M70AB2
M72B1 Stamped receiver, fixed stock RPK - M72B1
M72AB1 Stamped receiver, folding stock RPK - M72AB1
M85 PAP PV or NP
M92 PAP
M70 N & O PAP
M90/95
M76
M77

Romanian Cugir., There are various previously imported Cugir/Romanian SAR, WUM and other AKM types. The SAR/WASR 2 & 3 series as well.
PSL
M64 RPK
Draco in various sizes
Romy G
Md63
Md65

Both have choices depending on if you build or buy etc.

Last edited by AKBLUE; 04-01-2016 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:58 PM   #18
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I would like to see more zastava stuff imported especially their larger 308/54R semi autos and bolt actions.
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Old 04-01-2016, 05:47 PM   #19
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I love zastava rifles. The first ak47 I shot was my father's wasr. If you could make it fire you wouldn't be able to hit anything. Shot his friends wasr as well and it was complete shit. He traded it for a m70b1. When I turned 18 I started my collection and my first 7.62x39 rifle was the m72 rpk. I have added a few more since then.

Because of my early experience with the wasr I could never bring myself to buy one even after all the good reviews. I can't help but think about the two examples I tried to use.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:10 PM   #20
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Both. The rifles are different and there's good and bad with both of them, but overall have had good experiences.
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Old 04-01-2016, 06:15 PM   #21
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Who needs Zastava or Cugir AK's when there is plenty of RAS47's.

Joke.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:26 PM   #22
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I am not a fan of Zastava AK's, never owned a WASR personally so I cannot tell you between the two- I own a few SAR-1s and think they rock.
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:46 PM   #23
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You do realize that the good ole U.S.A. dropped a bunch of bombs and missiles on Serbia about 19 years ago ! And the Serbs do not forget ! I doubt very seriously they are selling us their best-made products !
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Old 04-01-2016, 08:55 PM   #24
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There is a saying in Bulgaria: "Never buy a Romanian car."

Basically, the Romanians aren't known for making great quality products. I would take a Zastava over a SAR, WUM, or WASR. However,, my Romanian AKs run great.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:11 PM   #25
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I have a number of Zastava rifles. I haven't had any issues with them. I do not have a WASR but plan on buying one later...
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:16 PM   #26
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:33 PM   #27
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People are talking about problems with Zastava rifles and seem to have forgotten the bad rep the WASR had. Personally, I haven't had a problem with either.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:36 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7891 View Post
If I had to pick one for me it would be Cugir/WASR. I like the Warsaw Pact standard.
This is the big plus of the Romy AK.
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:37 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Armory View Post
AKFiles,

What are your thoughts on rifles manufactured from Zastava and Cugir factories? Do you guys prefer one over the other?

Thank you!
You planning on importing?
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:55 PM   #30
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Big vote for Cugir!
My Romak 2 is my favorite ak.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:13 AM   #31
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I love my Zastava built guns (3). They have good fit and finish, and have been 100% reliable for me.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:19 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Armory View Post
Lots of great info guys, keep it coming. Cugir's workers are very nice people to speak with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrobel View Post
Are you planning on importing from them? Be careful not to get sued by century
Make it happen, make it happen!
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virgil cole View Post
You do realize that the good ole U.S.A. dropped a bunch of bombs and missiles on Serbia about 19 years ago ! And the Serbs do not forget ! I doubt very seriously they are selling us their best-made products !
True.., the relations with the USA in particular during the Slobodan Milosevic era.
But aside from the Zastava firearms the vast majority of those spunky little Fiats you see zipping around in the USA are built in the same city as the Zastava plant and exported to the USA for sale.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3r_1 View Post
Who needs Zastava or Cugir AK's when there is plenty of RAS47's.

Joke.
Hahaha! Love it.

I like all factory built commie gun. The only Zastava I have is the surplus Tok M57 pistol. Nice. Zero malfunction. Somehow, non of their AK series have made it into collection yet. Currently chasing a FEG AMD. One commie country at a time.

Love all my Cugir guns, AES10B, SAR2, Draco (Soon to be an AIMR clone). All are excellent shooters with zero malfunction.
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Who needs Zastava or Cugir AK's when there is plenty of RAS47's.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:42 AM   #35
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You can pretty much add all the Iraqi Tabuk weapons to the Zastava line as well.

The DMR, shorty, and fixed and folder Tabuk's.
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