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Old 11-21-2017, 12:18 AM   #1
Triathloncoach
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Default 7.62 x 39 Sporter, Pioneer Arms, Radom, Poland

https://imgur.com/a/adcBX




I ran across 2 of these last week - Pioneer Arms -Radom, Poland. Polish Barrels. Anyone familiar with these?
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:25 AM   #2
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Well that shows us how all our commbloc rifles are imported. M

That’s actually pretty interesting imo.

Were people selling just the barreled receivers or as complete rifles?
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:31 AM   #3
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In terms of quality they are no where close to today’s $539 WASRs.

I.O. Inc shell company with bad manufacturing techniques while playing the “Radom Card”

Questionable CHF barrels.

Cast trunnions and BCG.

Almost bought one before WBP showed up.
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:33 AM   #4
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https://i.imgur.com/nIS1BzA.jpg

uhhh

magwell is no worky on that one there

old thread, little info > http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188007

search ?
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathloncoach View Post
https://imgur.com/a/adcBX




I ran across 2 of these last week - Pioneer Arms -Radom, Poland. Polish Barrels. Anyone familiar with these?
Really, OP?

You're asking about Kalashnikovs on an AK-centric discussion board?


These unpolished turds are the unholy union of InterOrdnance and the . . .
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The Pioneer people are down the street from the government munitions plant in the old Socialist People's Glorious Wire Hanger, Cattle feeder & Industrial Dildo Plant ( most likely chosen for the "Radom, Poland" address )

We've had many threads on these fine, fine crapftsmen here.
Yet another "bait & switch" tactic used by InterOrdnance to get folks to buy their crap.
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On the off chance you've never heard of InterOrdnance, they're the company that doesn't care if their products maim or kill folks
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Old 11-21-2017, 12:49 AM   #6
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Pioneer Arms & I.O. broke tighs a couple years ago. According to PAK, they got fed up with I.O.'s way of doing things. This year, PAK-USA opened up and is now importing their firearms again under their own brandname. So far, I've just seen their PPS43c pistols, but AKs are said to be on the way. it will be interesting to see if the quality is higher than back in the I.O. days.
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:19 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
Pioneer Arms & I.O. broke tighs a couple years ago. According to PAK, they got fed up with I.O.'s way of doing things. This year, PAK-USA opened up and is now importing their firearms again under their own brandname. So far, I've just seen their PPS43c pistols, but AKs are said to be on the way. it will be interesting to see if the quality is higher than back in the I.O. days.
Wow that’s some good news.

Hopefully they will import underfolders and pistols as well.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
Pioneer Arms & I.O. broke tighs a couple years ago. According to PAK, they got fed up with I.O.'s way of doing things. This year, PAK-USA opened up and is now importing their firearms again under their own brandname.
From what I know it was rather a combination of IO moving it's headquarters and Pioneer expanding their manufacturing plant. In effect Pioneer had to cease their operations in late 2014 (or early 2015), and IO apparently left the importation business. If there was some kind of altercation between IO and Pioneer, I'm not sure but I don't believe so. In fact Pioneer's AK line was a brain-child of IO, and probably IO helped with setting it up. Pioneer's AKs have much in common with Romanian pattern rifles, and I wouldn't be surprised if Uli Wiegand's contacts in Romania allowed Pioneer to buy some tooling from former Uzina Mecanica Cugir and Uzina Mecanica Sadu.

Pioneer returned in 2016, but this time they were present on Polish market (which they ignored previously). I haven't seen any of their guns personally, but judging from pics there's still that "Romanian gene" visible. Not that there's anything wrong with Romanian AKs - truth be told, I'd prefer a Romanian gun as opposed to Pioneer product. It just doesn't fit into their "AK from Radom" marketing trick.

And "AK from Radom" is where I have my reservations about Pioneer. The "AK from Radom" is actually company's current trademark, it's even in their website address. They are still heavily relying on the location of their plant, trying to imply connection between their company and former ZM "Lucznik" in the same city of Radom. In fact, their triumphant enter on the Polish market was accompanied by a huge media presence in these two-three Polish firearm magazines. Every of these periodicals presented their own article/review of Pioneer gun, and half of what was written in these articles was dedicated to the history of ZM "Lucznik". The rest of the text was a "review" which could be summed up like "we've fired that day between 200 and 500 rounds of ammo and the gun haven't blown up - so it's the best AK, and it's AK from Radom, and go buy this gun". Three almost identical "reviews" in three gun papers - I'm not saying that these were paid reviews, but... It makes one wonder.

What I'm trying to say is that Pioneer's management seems very insecure about their product. It's almost as if they don't believe they could make a quality product, and feel the need to hide their own incompetency under "Radom" smoke and mirrors. Then there are companies like WPB with their "Jack" series, which are proven by users (not by "reviews" in gun magazines) to be quality products. Hell, WBP is actually using componets from/cooperating with FB "Lucznik" (THE Polish AK manufacturer), and they don't really mention it often. For me the whole Pioneer thing is not trustworthy enough to give them my money.

@Nalioth:
Truth be told it is FB "Lucznik" (or rather their predecessor ZM "Lucznik") who are Socialist People's Glorious Wire Hanger, Cattle feeder & Industrial Dildo Plant. Between 1932 and 1999 PWU-FB/ZM "Lucznik" was manufacturing not only guns, but also bicycles, typewriters, sewing machines and all kinds of various home appliances. In 1999 ZM "Lucznik" went bankrupt, FB "Lucznik" was created in it's place, and all civilian production was privatised. Most of the buildings were emptied and that's where free capitalist entrepreneurs, like Pioneer with their false advertisement, found place.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris22lr View Post
@Nalioth:
Truth be told it is FB "Lucznik" (or rather their predecessor ZM "Lucznik") who are Socialist People's Glorious Wire Hanger, Cattle feeder & Industrial Dildo Plant.
The description was coined years ago to denote that Pioneer had no idea how to make an AK and "learning from InterOrdnance" did not help them at all.

It was meant to be humorous and/or disparaging of Pioneer at the time.



IMHO, it'll be a long time before Pioneer emerges from the dark cloud that their association with InterOrdnance has them under.
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Old 11-21-2017, 04:38 PM   #10
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Not these again...

Cast junk peddled by the thieves at IO...
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:42 AM   #11
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Oh wholely agree. I am not running out to buy one of these just because now it has Pioneer Arms as the importer rather than I.O.
But....PAK moving away from I.O. can only be a good thing, and at least means there's a 'chance' they might one day make a decent AK. As long as they were with I.O.....there wasn't even that much.

Chris, the owner of one of I.O.'s distributers here let something slip over the phone to me, that very much seemed to indicate that I.O. was no longer on Pioneer's christmas card list hehe.

Its a good thing that I.O. is out of the import game. Their name literally tainted whatever it was on....even when the product itself was great.

As to PAK reviewers over in Poland, seems like to me they just have started copying American gun writer/reviewers lol. Those kinds of articles are what get written here too....whatever, with the internet people are free to do their own research and form their own opinions.

The only Pioneer product i own is my PPS43c pistol. For the money, it is well enough built, is reliable, and has been a lot of fun to shoot.
Maybe if they do more SMG to semi-auto rebuilds then I'll buy from PAK-USA.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:26 AM   #12
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For the $300 I paid for it, my Hellpup runs just fine. I've got a feeling there's a few Romanian parts on it and it's got like 8 different serial numbers on it.
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Old 11-25-2017, 04:03 PM   #13
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I bought one of these many years ago without furniture for 400$...didn't do any research, figured the barrel made it worth while.

I don't regret the purchase...I can always sell it (for a profit) to someone who isn't savvy about cast parts and questionable rivet setting.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:30 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Really, OP?

You're asking about Kalashnikovs on an AK-centric discussion board?


These unpolished turds are the unholy union of InterOrdnance and the . . .

Yet another "bait & switch" tactic used by InterOrdnance to get folks to buy their crap.
murder death kill
On the off chance you've never heard of InterOrdnance, they're the company that doesn't care if their products maim or kill folks

I was not aware of the IO connection. I was initially interested because it has a polish barrel.
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