Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > AK-47s

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-27-2017, 06:44 PM   #36
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
Seems the info has stopped. Too bad.
What info are you looking for?
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 07:19 PM   #37
sigking
Veteran Member
Gold Contributor
 
sigking's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 8744
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
What info are you looking for?

have you tried different make of ammo?

was the ammo you were using hollow point?
__________________
South Carolina....stirring the pot since 1860

.
.
.
When I fall...let it be from a bullet and not a blade to the throat..
sigking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 08:46 PM   #38
LXD55
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 177980
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Out of the Basket and in the Main Stream.
Posts: 6,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
What info are you looking for?
You started the story.
LXD55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 11:47 PM   #39
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigking View Post
have you tried different make of ammo?

was the ammo you were using hollow point?
We were using the same ammo in both rifles, RAS and wolf. I believe it was all hollowpoint so as soon as I get my hands on some FMJ I will be retesting, hopefully this weekend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
You started the story.
Basically we have a rifle from an unknown builder. Initial range trip with RAS and wolf ammo showed no issues. Second range trip with the same ammo had multiple malfunctions, while no issues were experienced in a second rifle with the same ammo. Multiple mags used, same mags for both rifles.

I have performed the physical checks recommended by turbo, revealing only slight movement of the bolt from side to side when held in battery. Iím still unclear whether or not this indicates a serious headspace issue. Everything else he asked me to check looked good to my untrained eyes.

Someone asked if the rifle may be under gassed. My next range trip will hopefully be this weekend and will be using FMJ rounds instead of hollow points, and I will be checking how far the cases are ejected which I have been told ITT will indicate whether or not there is a gas issue. Once I do this I will report back and hope for more generous info from this forum. Everyone has been very helpful, awesome group here.

I donít think I left anything else out but if you have any questions that might point to something let me know and if I donít have an answer I will check! Thanks.
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 12:47 AM   #40
allesennogwat
Curio & Relic
 
allesennogwat's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 3738
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 45,003
Default

The ammunition is possibly too short.

Use some FMJ ammo.
__________________
Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.
allesennogwat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 01:10 AM   #41
LXD55
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 177980
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Out of the Basket and in the Main Stream.
Posts: 6,734
Default

No that is a good and well thought out answer. It shows you are serious but do take some
"hollow points" just to make sure. Let us know.

If you were shooting hollow points look at the edge of the feed ramp to see
if there are copper traces.
LXD55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 02:18 AM   #42
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
No that is a good and well thought out answer. It shows you are serious but do take some
"hollow points" just to make sure. Let us know.

If you were shooting hollow points look at the edge of the feed ramp to see
if there are copper traces.
Thanks. I am serious, my general lack of knowledge may make me sound like Iím not but I assure you itís just because Iím not super familiar with these things. I enjoy learning, and the input from so many here more knowledgeable than me has been awesome. I will definitely report back once Iíve done more testing.

I still havenít gone to the builders sub that you suggested earlier since I wanted to be able to answer all the questions Iíve been asked here before I get them involved, and that will take me getting to the range.

Would the copper trace remain after a good cleaning? It was thoroughly cleaned after the last use, and I didnít know to look for that. I will check tomorrow either way.
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 02:41 AM   #43
LXD55
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 177980
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Out of the Basket and in the Main Stream.
Posts: 6,734
Default

The round they call a "hollow point" is not a true hollow point. Geneva does not allow hollow point expanding bullets. Just general knowledge is all that is. But the way the round is made leaves a little hole in the tip and can catch on the bullet guide into the chamber.

Just jump into the builders forum. They like problems. Fuck they create most of them
LXD55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 08:14 AM   #44
auskip07
Member
 
AKaholic #: 194714
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Atlanta Georgia
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
I didn't think to measure that when we were at the range. I will try to get out this weekend and test it a bit more with some of the tips from this thread in mind. I know it doesn't do me much good until I get a chance to actually check how far they are ejecting, but just so I have something to think about, what can cause an under gassed condition?
check the gas port, since it worked fine the first time firing maybe some of the copper jacket is lodge in the gas port. Hoppes dissolves stuff like that so a liberal amount on a patch in the barrel and gas block might help.
auskip07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 01:23 PM   #45
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
But the way the round is made leaves a little hole in the tip and can catch on the bullet guide into the chamber.
Have you ever seen that happen on factory built rifles, or mostly just builds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by auskip07 View Post
check the gas port, since it worked fine the first time firing maybe some of the copper jacket is lodge in the gas port. Hoppes dissolves stuff like that so a liberal amount on a patch in the barrel and gas block might help.
Will do
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 02:16 PM   #46
LXD55
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 177980
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Out of the Basket and in the Main Stream.
Posts: 6,734
Default

While I have never had it happen to me I have heard people talk about FTF issues because of it. And I would not know if it was a build or a factory rifle.

Also with pistols and hollow points, the people would polish the feed ramp a little.
LXD55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2017, 11:57 PM   #47
sigking
Veteran Member
Gold Contributor
 
sigking's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 8744
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
Have you ever seen that happen on factory built rifles, or mostly just builds?



Will do

My AES10 will not feed the hollow points at all ..period. Doesnt matter which mag, fully loaded, half loaded...hates them. I dont care that it doesnt like them. I just use some other round.

Friend of mine has a Sar 1 that would not feed them 100%


Neither of us are willing to polish or grind on the rifles to get them to work, even thou we can see from the copper what needs polished. We feel its not an issue with the rifle, per say. they just picky bitches
__________________
South Carolina....stirring the pot since 1860

.
.
.
When I fall...let it be from a bullet and not a blade to the throat..
sigking is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 03:03 AM   #48
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

https://imgur.com/gallery/9h1eF

Made it out to the range today. Ran FMJ, the third round failed to eject but didn’t stovepipe, and that was the only failure in 30 rounds (only had 30 FMJ). The first two pictures in the album show what it looked like after the malfunction and before I touched anything. The case was still in the chamber and slid in and out freely when I tilted the rifle. The bolt was half open. The third picture is the case that I removed with damage on the front of the case. I think when I was clearing the jam I let the bolt go when the case had come out of the chamber and was damaged then, but I wanted to include the picture in case it indicated any other issue. The fourth pic shows copper on the feen lip.

The cases ejected about 5-7 feet, about half or so of how far they were ejecting from my control rifle.

Last edited by czarslayer; 12-03-2017 at 03:10 AM. Reason: Clarification
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:27 PM   #49
raverill
Member
 
AKaholic #: 170134
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Memphis phoenix
Posts: 71
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
https://imgur.com/gallery/9h1eF



The cases ejected about 5-7 feet, about half or so of how far they were ejecting from my control rifle.
It's possible the gas block is covering a portion of the gas port. Try this: Remove the bolt carrier, remove gas tube/upper handguard, plug chamber with wine cork or something better, and blow air into the muzzle, see if a good volume of air is coming out of the gas block. You may want to do this as well with a fully functioning rifle to get a baseline for how much air and intensity of air is coming out of the gas block.


I would say if the velocity of air coming out of the gas port is abnormally high compared to a functioning rifle, the gas block is probable pressed over a portion of the gas port.
raverill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:41 PM   #50
1biggun
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 6541
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
Default

Ok a few things
1 was the bolt still on the round before the picture was taken??
2 is the carrier traveling back about all the way?

To check carrier travel put a few stips of pinstripe size masking tape across the charge handel slot.
We're the tape dosent get broken off is the end of its travel.

A case still in the chamber but loose not snapped onto the bolt suggests extracter issues.
Check the function of the spring strip the bolt see what's in the extractor slot and spring hole.

If the carrier dosent reach almost to the rear trunion then the rifle is under gassed.
1biggun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 08:46 PM   #51
1biggun
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 6541
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,974
Default

If it's a AK with a 45 degree gas block see if a drill bit goes directly
It should. If not fix it.
1biggun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 10:08 PM   #52
raverill
Member
 
AKaholic #: 170134
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Memphis phoenix
Posts: 71
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
If it's a AK with a 45 degree gas block see if a drill bit goes directly
It should. If not fix it.
Even better idea than what I mentioned above, drill bit diameter should be 1/8" or 0.125"
raverill is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 11:04 AM   #53
GuidoFL
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
GuidoFL's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 171081
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Florida CSA
Posts: 2,009
Default

My pals and I had the same issues, we traced it down to using RAS ammo which fouled the chamber badly thus sizing the spent casings. Clean all parts and chamber then stay away from RAS and Tula ammo. Soak BCA in turps over night , then lighty oil. Solved our problems ..............
__________________
NRA Life/Endowment
GuidoFL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 03:18 PM   #54
czarslayer
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193580
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Western Washington
Posts: 240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Ok a few things
1 was the bolt still on the round before the picture was taken??
2 is the carrier traveling back about all the way?

To check carrier travel put a few stips of pinstripe size masking tape across the charge handel slot.
We're the tape dosent get broken off is the end of its travel.

A case still in the chamber but loose not snapped onto the bolt suggests extracter issues.
Check the function of the spring strip the bolt see what's in the extractor slot and spring hole.

If the carrier dosent reach almost to the rear trunion then the rifle is under gassed.
The picture was taken before anything was touched at all. The bolt and the round were not touching. When I get home tonight or tomorrow I will disassemble and check the components you suggested and report back.

When testing the travel of the carrier as you suggested, do I need to fire a round with the tape on there or would it be enough to manually pull back the carrier?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
If it's a AK with a 45 degree gas block see if a drill bit goes directly
It should. If not fix it.
Will check this when it is all apart. When you say fix it, are you expecting debris to be blocking the hole? What might I run into?

Quote:
Originally Posted by raverill View Post
Even better idea than what I mentioned above, drill bit diameter should be 1/8" or 0.125"
I'm glad that came up, I don't have air at home so I would have to apply air manually..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoFL View Post
My pals and I had the same issues, we traced it down to using RAS ammo which fouled the chamber badly thus sizing the spent casings. Clean all parts and chamber then stay away from RAS and Tula ammo. Soak BCA in turps over night , then lighty oil. Solved our problems ..............
Thanks for the advice. I mostly run Wolf, but I'm not sure what the previous owner used. Will be doing a deep cleaning.
czarslayer is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2017 The AK FIles