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Old 12-07-2017, 02:03 AM   #36
hansellhd
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Originally Posted by wormraper View Post
I'd disagree with the OP's opinion about it being the best budget AK right now bar none. I'd give that to the newer WASRS if you can get them for $535-$550 like they are right now.


however, I still would pick up a DF if i had money (had to buy a new TV for my business) in a heartbeat (as long as I replaced the recoil spring)
I know most on this forum love the WASR but to be honest over the years I have not been enamored with Romanian AK's. The Yugo AK's have always served me well unlike some of the Romanian AK's that I no longer own. If you or others like them that's fine, just not my cup of tea.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:07 AM   #37
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Century has won nothing. If they had, they'd actually be turning a respectable profit this year rather than just keeping their head above water...barely.
Well damn, I'm sorry to hear about century's problems. I enjoy the imports of theirs I own and love. They got me hooked. Maybe one day we can argue about the first batch of the loved ras 47s'

I'm just being an ass. Pap whatever uf-m70 is the best ak being imported? today. I've wanted one for years and still do.

What does PAP stand for? And WASR?

Never mind let folks google it themselves.
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:45 AM   #38
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I was in the same boat with buying my second DF, why not?

The prices had just come down, it was a late summer inventory clear out sale at one of my distributers and the DFs hadn't been moving great. So i figured why not?
The price was low enough, that it wasn't one of those things I really needed to think about and budget for. Figured if i regreted it later, I could get my money back out of it easily enough.
I had just converted my M92 pistol into a carbine with one of those Apex Zastava stocks, so I guess I was in an underfolder mood too.

For those of us who lived through and tried to buy AKs/ARs during the '94 AWB; it kind of feels like giving the anti-gunners the middle finger everytime we buy a rifle with a folding buttstock hehehe.
Shit back then under the 94 AWB you couldn't get an underfolder for less than $1,200 IIRC. I bought my 1st gun which was an AK during the AWB and I would lust after the UF's hard I thought they were cool as hell and I still do but I was 18, broke, and could never afford one. In those days I would have traded my left nut for the opportunity to buy a UF for $500-600 like the NPAP DF. And you're right after starting out in guns during the AWB owning folders does indeed feel like giving the grabbers the finger.

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Old 12-07-2017, 03:04 AM   #39
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Ras47uf.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:59 AM   #40
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As far as I know, PAP stands for Polavtomatska Puska, which basically means loosely semi automatic rifle.

No idea what WASR stands for, and people saying it is for some 'Wasner Agreement' seem to be wrong. Maybe its Romanian slang for "lets fuck with Americans!"

As to UFs during the '94 AWB, yuppp....I surely didn't own one and couldn't afford it at the time.
I don't ever remember seeing a UF kit build back then. Just those few prebans like the FEG SA 85m and Norinco 56S-1. I know Mitchells Yugos were imported too, but I never saw one at the time.

As soon as the AWB sunset, I bought the first UF I found. It was a Century M70AB2 in 2005. Actually, my first one got ran over by a UPS truck. The box was shaped like a 'W' when they brought it to the shop. I had to wait for CAI to assemble another batch, as the first was already sold out. So I waited a few weeks. It was a nice rifle. It had the original wood handguard and also original Zastava pistol grip. The stock was tight, and it came with 2 steel mags, sling, and a few other goodies. That was back when CAI routinely tossed extras in.
It cost me $400 or $450. Honestly can't recall clearly now.

That was 2005. My NP-DF in 2016 was $550, so not bad for over a decade.

I can't say Yugos are my favorite AKs, but they are neat and interesting. My favorite is my OPAP of course.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:34 AM   #41
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I'm pretty happy with all my recent Yugo acquisitions NPAPS, M92, M85 and OPAPs. Very happy....
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:27 AM   #42
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We have shipped out thousands of the N-PAP AK47 rifles and quite honestly not had many complaints or issues over the last few years. As with any product you are bound to have a few that may have defects but when looking at the big picture they have been solid. We still prefer the WASR 10 but the N PAP comes in a strong second in the budget AK line up. Another great video by Mish !!
Keep them coming.



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Old 12-07-2017, 10:03 AM   #43
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Misha. First off thank you for all the hard work you guys do, bringing researched and informative content compared to the vast mind numbing opinions of some You Tube gun video creators!

You mentioned that when they were first imported the DF stocks has a 'rubber butt pad' or words to the affect. Do you happen to know any more details on that. Was that something Century added or did that come from the factory?
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:58 AM   #44
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Also means Century knows there was a bad batch and decided not to inform anyone.
And if that is true, if they had NPAPs with such questionable receivers that they cut them up rather than sell them, well that just tanks any credibility they might have left regarding their other products...oh say the RAS47.
It wouldn't surprise me if they found out a batch of N-PAPs had bad receivers and didn't say anything. If they did, they would have probably had to recall those rifles or do a buy back. If Century had to buy back a batch of defective or questionable rifles they would probably go bankrupt.

Just think if they had to buy back all of the RAS47's they sold because of defective internal components (which they are ) they would be committing suicide as a company.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:00 AM   #45
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I'm pretty happy with all my recent Yugo acquisitions NPAPS, M92, M85 and OPAPs. Very happy....
I have to agree here also. OPAP's #1 too.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:03 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by WVKalashnikov View Post
It wouldn't surprise me if they found out a batch of N-PAPs had bad receivers and didn't say anything. If they did, they would have probably had to recall those rifles or do a buy back. If Century had to buy back a batch of defective or questionable rifles they would probably go bankrupt.

Just think if they had to buy back all of the RAS47's they sold because of defective internal components (which they are ) they would be committing suicide as a company.
Kinda reminds me of their early "keyholing" Tantal fiasco.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:35 AM   #47
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I purchased two of the cut-up PAP kits from APEX. They had the receiver stubs still intact etc.
I pulled them apart and pulled the barrels etc.
I wanted the components like the non grenade valve gas block and no night sight FSB for a Tabuk DMR build(s) and planned to re-use the barrels on milsurp M70 milled and/or stamped kits.
The "as new" underfolder 4/8 rivet assembly for a M92 pistol rework to add the folding stock and barrel extension.

I did not check headspace or spend much time inspecting the receiver remnants. I did not notice and particular wear or soft parts. The carriers and bolts did not show high wear or anything as I recall.
They looked to be lightly used.
Dunno if they were cut due to warped/cracked receivers, bad rivets, headspace, egged axis pins etc.
I sold one bolt & carrier set and still have the other somewhere around.

I'm not sure I set those specific receiver stubs aside as I just threw them in a box of receiver parts I have.
I might be able to find them and take a closer look and review the bolt & carrier for anything odd or wear.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:50 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
I never said the 1.0mm receiver was new to Zastava.
I said that in 2013, they sent over their first semi-auto 1.0mm receivers. Semis made to meet BATF requirements here. As far as I know, these were the first of their kind, first of this exact variant I mean.

If you check the video, I say in the description that the NPAP-DF is a semi version of the M70AB1. Also in it, i say the M70AB1 was a thing for a long time, as was the M92.

So with full autos no, nothing new. Just it seems like perhaps just maybe that first batch or two of the semi NPAPs might be the source of many of the reported lemons?

And yep, i remember those cut up NPAPs from Apex. That was always odd and a mystery to me too.
If they had been imported as kits, then their barrels would have had to have been cut up or drilled through.
The fact the barrels were fully intact tells that these once came in as complete, working rifles.

Why Century cut them up? They have never said.
Good thought though. Would be interesting if true. Also means Century knows there was a bad batch and decided not to inform anyone.
And if that is true, if they had NPAPs with such questionable receivers that they cut them up rather than sell them, well that just tanks any credibility they might have left regarding their other products...oh say the RAS47.
I misread your post and did not watch any video. I understand now what you were referring to.

I thought you were referring to the early milspec pattern 1mm AP models of Zastava firearms. Which were produced earlier in the manufacture and seemingly for domestic use as well as possible export etc.

I see you were referring to the "early" as in the resurrected 1mm PAP receivers used for export to the USA.
Maybe to other areas as well but have not seen evidence of that.

Here is an explanation of the model references used in Zastava firearms. The military (full auto) vs commercial (semi-auto).

Quote:
* AP is short for 'Automatska Puška', which is Serbo-Croatian for 'Automatic Rifle'. 'Automatic' in this context refers to Fully Automatic, while semi-automatic rifles like the Zastava M59/66 SKSs etc are referred to as PAP [short for 'Poluautomatske Puška'.] The term AP is generally left out when referring to all of the full-auto rifles.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:05 PM   #49
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How else would you remove kebabs is the real question here.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:09 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
No idea what WASR stands for, and people saying it is for some 'Wasner Agreement' seem to be wrong. Maybe its Romanian slang for "lets fuck with Americans!"
Wassenaar Arrangement Semiautomatic Rifle

Wassenaar Arrangement is a non-UN arms treaty that continues the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls under less strict terms. Romania is a signatory.

What else could the acronym possibly mean? Nothing else makes sense. Even the Romanian language has nothing denoting arms that use those words unless it is something Century cooked up but again no other meaning to the acronym makes sense.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:19 PM   #51
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Wassenaar Arrangement Semiautomatic Rifle

Wassenaar Arrangement is a non-UN arms treaty that continues the Coordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls under less strict terms. Romania is a signatory.

What else could the acronym possibly mean? Nothing else makes sense. Even the Romanian language has nothing denoting arms that use those words unless it is something Century cooked up but again no other meaning to the acronym makes sense.
Always seemed to be the best answer^^^^
.., although there was always the...,

What
A
Shitty
Rifle

acronym.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:27 PM   #52
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I want rifles that I can pass down. I prefer milled Bulgarians, then WASR's. I'll stay away from the PAPs:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ak-47/AK...159106/&page=1

But that's just my (probably overly cautious) decision. I'm sure many PAPs do fine on semi auto.
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Old 12-07-2017, 04:27 PM   #53
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At work right now, so don't have time to go back and look at my notes, can tonight maybe...

But I looked into the Wassener thing a few years ago, and nothing aside from a similarity in name lined up. Dates didn't match with the WASR-10 rifle, and there's nothing in the agreement itself about civilian semi-auto rifles or anything else that would really explain a connection.

It is possible its just a coincidence.

Remember 1997-1999 we had: Romak, CUR, WUM, and other names for Cugir rifles.
Then 1999-2003 we settled on SAR, followed by WASR from then til today.

I'll get back with you later on this though, I am not exactly young hehe memory does start to get foggy though I blame that on marriage and a family hehe=)


AKBlue, no worries. If you recall we talked Yugo AKs and their names several months back. I took any new info you provided and put it into my notes. I keep notes on all things that interest me. You should see my David Bowie file hehe.

As for rubber recoil pads on the earlier N-PAPs, sorry i was referring to the fixed stock M70 version. The earlier ones had a more Yugo shaped stock, with a commercial rubber pad and lacking a sling swivel.
More recent ones seem to use the exact same stock blank as the WASR; just cut to fit a Yugo trunnion rather than std AKM. This means they have a metal buttplate and AKM sling swivel. Also these stocks ahve allen head screws rather than slotted, which really bugs me for some reason?
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:18 PM   #54
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Love my DF, it’s my most seasoned AK with well over 7K rounds down range.

Mine did need a break in period though, about 250-300 rounds. The ejector need to be broken in and the bullet guide needed to be worn down as well.

Had a nice write up about my experience before PB sucked a fat dick.
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:47 PM   #55
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If it helps, my Polytech Legend needed a breakin period too it seems.

I am of the school of thought that says that guns 'shouldn't' require break in, but the reality is sometimes they just do.
50-100 rds is fine...that's just getting the leftover grease out and flexing the springs.
200-250 is a little much, but i guess acceptable.

500 though? That's nuts. If a gun needs half a case of ammo just to break in, that company has done screwed up.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:00 PM   #56
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I enjoy your videos, mishaco.

Purchased my NPAP in early 2014. Replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff high power because of peening. Also, put Loctite on the receiver cover nut because it flew off one time. No issues with rivets or receiver cracks, though. I've put thousands of rounds through it with no issues and it has generally been a good rifle for the money.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:36 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
At work right now, so don't have time to go back and look at my notes, can tonight maybe...

But I looked into the Wassener thing a few years ago, and nothing aside from a similarity in name lined up. Dates didn't match with the WASR-10 rifle, and there's nothing in the agreement itself about civilian semi-auto rifles or anything else that would really explain a connection.

It is possible its just a coincidence.

Remember 1997-1999 we had: Romak, CUR, WUM, and other names for Cugir rifles.
Then 1999-2003 we settled on SAR, followed by WASR from then til today.

I'll get back with you later on this though, I am not exactly young hehe memory does start to get foggy though I blame that on marriage and a family hehe=)


AKBlue, no worries. If you recall we talked Yugo AKs and their names several months back. I took any new info you provided and put it into my notes. I keep notes on all things that interest me. You should see my David Bowie file hehe.

As for rubber recoil pads on the earlier N-PAPs, sorry i was referring to the fixed stock M70 version. The earlier ones had a more Yugo shaped stock, with a commercial rubber pad and lacking a sling swivel.
More recent ones seem to use the exact same stock blank as the WASR; just cut to fit a Yugo trunnion rather than std AKM. This means they have a metal buttplate and AKM sling swivel. Also these stocks ahve allen head screws rather than slotted, which really bugs me for some reason?
Dunno on the WASR name.,

But an aspect of the Wassenaar Arrangement..., though the majority of nations signed it in 1996 at the inception of the Arrangement.
Subsequent meetings that took place in 1998 and 1999 revealed that some countries reporting was haphazard or insufficient.
Also the report indicated that former communist block countries weapons were being routed to conflict areas in Africa, the Balkans states and elsewhere.

The EU adopted new reporting regulations as an adjunct to existing criteria in the Arrangement.
Thirteen other countries that were outside the EU at the time also agreed to the more stringent reporting.
Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Cyprus, Iceland, Hungary, Czech Rep., Latvia, Norway, Poland, Estonia & Lithuania.

Though not formally charged several of the countries were implicated by the sheer number of weapons originating in their country being discovered in abundance in the conflict areas.

The aim was to get control of the small arms flow to these conflict areas. Light weapons, mines and any chemical based weapons etc.

Romania was among the implicated countries. At one time they were the 10th largest producer of small arms in the world and it was a large economic resource for the country.
Starting in 1999 and 2000 the USA began to favor the import of certain weapons from Romania to the USA to lessen the economic impact on Romania and create an outlet for surplus and new production light weapons so they would not be as likely to flow to the conflict areas in other countries.

Here is some related information regarding Romania and SALW., Small Arms & Light Weapons.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=VwY....0.WowGXF7NOn4
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