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Old 02-08-2016, 10:40 AM   #1
MikeManassas
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Default The Pros and Cons of PayPal

Should you use PayPal for Marketplace purchases, or not? It probably depends on what items you are selling and the amount of money involved. PayPal's acceptable use policy prohibits transactions of "ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories", but they do not explicitly define what certain firearm parts or accessories are prohibited.

I have been sending PayPal invoices for grips, stocks, and forearms to buyers for a couple of years and have never had an issue with PayPal. I always include a description of the item(s) on the invoice that is complete enough so that the buyer knows exactly what he is paying for, without using the words AK-47 or assault rifle.

Paying with PayPal - When a buyer posts an I'll Take It I send a PayPal invoice to his email address. When the buyer makes Payment I receive a notice from PayPal that it is OK to ship. I buy and print postage (at a discount) right from my PayPal account. PayPal then sends USPS tracking information to the buyer. Both the buyer and seller have a complete audit trail of the transaction.

Never use PayPal gift payment to pay for items you purchase. You do not get any buyer protection with gift payments. If you are concerned that PayPal may not protect your purchase then use your credit card to pay the PayPal invoice! Your credit card company will protect your purchase.

As a seller I find the convenience of using PayPal well worth the 3.5% fee.

Cost Comparison for a $50 Sale - I sell a $50 item that weights 6 ounces. The cost comparison between PayPal and a USPS Money Order is:

PayPal:
PayPal fee: 2.9% + $.30 = $1.75
First Class Parcel Postage: $2.60 (buy online with discount)
Total cost: $4.35
Postal Money Order:
Money Order fee: $1.25 (paid by buyer)
First Class Parcel Postage: $3.14 (not available online from USPS)
Total cost: $4.39
Now a $500 purchase of a firearm is a different story. The PayPal fee (if they even permitted it) is $14.80 compared to a Postal Money Order for $1.75
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:44 AM   #2
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Related: FYI - Paypal options and what they mean to you - AK Files
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:41 PM   #3
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This might sound dumb, but, how do you get the first class postage online with a discount? The USPS website only lets you choose Priority Mail, and they no longer offer a discount for purchasing online. Is there a better option?
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:51 PM   #4
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Not dumb at all. You are correct that the USPS only discounts Priority Mail, but they have an agreement with PayPal to discount First Class mail also, probably because of the volume of business they do. You have to buy the postage from your PayPal account to get the discount, but it works just like the USPS Click N' Ship site - plus you get tracking included.
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Old 02-08-2016, 03:42 PM   #5
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Awesome, I'll try that next time, thanks!!!!
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Old 02-08-2016, 07:53 PM   #6
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I don't. No credit cards either.uspmo or cashiers check. Don't disagree it's just what I do.
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:37 PM   #7
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We will not due p/p. At one time I was selling some things on ebay and set up a pay pal account. After it got hacked twice, we dropped it and will not do it ever again.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:38 PM   #8
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Screw pay pal!

I'll pay a lil extra and now even pony up the 6 bucks for 2 day priority to send a USPS MO.

If a seller states "pay pal only", sorry, we can't do business.

But, to each their own.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weaselrunner View Post
We will not due p/p. At one time I was selling some things on ebay and set up a pay pal account. After it got hacked twice, we dropped it and will not do it ever again.
Related: Ebay member? Change your passwords - AK Files


Like as not, "hacks" are usually caused by folks not choosing a proper password or other behavioral faux pas' vis a vis security.
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Old 02-09-2016, 08:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI redneck View Post
Screw pay pal!

I'll pay a lil extra and now even pony up the 6 bucks for 2 day priority to send a USPS MO.

If a seller states "pay pal only", sorry, we can't do business.

But, to each their own.
See, that 's what makes our way of life so great. We can have diverse values and opinions and still get along. You convinced me. I will accept USPS MOs for anything I sell... but I still prefer PayPal.
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:05 AM   #11
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Paypal makes an unauthorized withdrawal from your account for a fraudulent purchase.

What is your recourse?

A. If you had an account balance, you have ZERO recourse. Paypal just steals your money and you can suck an egg.
B. If you had a zero account balance, and an attached checking account, you can have the anti-fraud people at your bank reverse the fraudulent transaction - but you're done with Paypal.

You e-mail paypal and say "WTF?"

You get a robo-response unrelated to anything.

Repeat 10x. But don't use the "fucking moron" or then the "security" people will tell you how unprofessional you are being in complaining about them stealing from you.

Call your bank and have the ACH reversed.

Paypal steals it again.

Call your bank and have the ACH reversed and Paypal blocked.

Paypal pouts and won't let you close your account, claiming the amount your bank refunded you for the fraudulent withdrawal is somehow theirs.

FUCK Paypal - I will not support their criminal fraud.
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Old 02-09-2016, 09:25 AM   #12
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So, can I assume that WTF is not one of the Marketplace headings like WTS, WTB, or WTT?
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:01 AM   #13
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My credit union offers a service called PopMoney that lets you send/receive funds from/to your bank account using only your email address or mobile phone number. The fees are reasonable, $.95 for up to $2000 per day if the sender is paying or $1000 if the receiver is requesting payment. The transfer is bank-to-bank and sender/receiver do not have any information about the other person's account.

PopMoney only acts as the agent until both banks acknowledge completion of the transfer. If the transfer fails the money is returned to the sender's account. Like USPS MOs there is no buyer/seller protection, only a guarantee on the funds transfer.

I liked the idea that the money is directly transferred bank-to-bank, unlike with PayPal which holds the fund in your PayPal account. This seemed to be a good alternative to USPS MOs or PayPal for sales between individuals... until I read the fine print.

PopMoney prohibits use for purchase of firearms, firearm parts or accessories. I guess they feel they need to prevent the sale of those dangerous rifle receiver rivets . Even eBay allows the sale of certain firearm parts and accessories. It looks like for now you are going to have to keep trotting down to the post office to buy USPS MOs.
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Old 02-14-2016, 05:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeManassas View Post
So, can I assume that WTF is not one of the Marketplace headings like WTS, WTB, or WTT?
Haha, your assumption is correct.

Also, going in my signature.
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Quote:
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So, can I assume that WTF is not one of the Marketplace headings like WTS, WTB, or WTT?
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Old 02-15-2016, 12:37 PM   #15
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Let's look at the part you left out in the OP.


When you offer all forms of payment, and 90% of the buyers pick paypal, your sales will be lower if you don't accept it.
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Old 02-15-2016, 02:03 PM   #16
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Knocks on wood * * *

Many many years of flawless paypal transactions seling and buying, through here, ebay, gunbroker, other places, never a reason to reconsider.

Man I hate hearing bros have suffered.
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Old 01-17-2017, 06:45 AM   #17
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PayPal no longer requires you to have an account in order to pay. You can pay with a credit or debit card without an account. Visa will protect your purchase if you purchase with a credit card. I don't recommend making online purchases with a debit card.

I tried it by purchasing something through PayPal with my Visa card without logging into my PayPal account. The purchase appeared on my Visa account, but not on my PayPal .

This may be an alternative for those who do not like PayPal. Now if you don't use credit cards, or checks, or money orders, or cash, or barter, or wampum then I am out of suggestions.
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Old 01-17-2017, 08:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MI redneck View Post
Screw pay pal!

I'll pay a lil extra and now even pony up the 6 bucks for 2 day priority to send a USPS MO.

If a seller states "pay pal only", sorry, we can't do business.

But, to each their own.
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:05 AM   #19
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Paypal is very anti gun and will not honor anything gun related. Their language is very obtuse and if it includes a firearm or high capacity magazine they may choose not to honor the transaction.

I get "phishing" emails claiming my account has been account on what seems like a daily basis. I've notified Paypal half a dozen times but they keep coming. They used to be easy to spot because of simple spelling mistakes but the crooks are catching on and some of the links now take you to paypal's website...
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Old 01-17-2017, 09:39 AM   #20
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I was an early adopter of PayPal. Also an early hack victim, so I killed my paypal acct. years ago. Never regretted it. Was a friggin' nightmare to get corrected not just in hassle, but in time spent.

If I had it to do over again I'd run a completely separate checking acct. with a bare minimum balance exclusively for PayPal use.


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Old 01-17-2017, 10:01 AM   #21
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Watch out selling stuff with PayPal. Sold a Springfield 1911 to a guy, he received the gun, then initiated a buyer complaint saying I sent him the wrong item. I emailed texts, emails, etc to PayPal customer support, they told me to pound sand. The guy got his money back for the gun, and since I had already taken the money out of PayPal, they put my account in the negative. I had already told Wells Fargo to block PayPal unless I called and authorized it, so they couldn't take it out of my account. Did that when I had fraudulent charges pop up. So now I get calls a couple times a year about paying back the $800 this nut job stole from me. Fuck PayPal.
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:41 AM   #22
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The Canadian banks offer email interac. It has taken over as the standard here. Unfortunately, I dont think its used in the USA yet, and of course eBay does not allow it.
I hope it becomes standard in the US so paypal can F@@K OFF. They suck.
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Old 01-17-2017, 01:07 PM   #23
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FUCK PAYPAL!!! right in there ass.
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Old 01-17-2017, 02:54 PM   #24
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Been using PayPal 13 years and never had an issue , screw money orders , I'm busy enough and rather not waste my time at the post office, always a long line. No protection from a money order , wait until you get ripped off , you have to fly to the state the fraud was committed , good luck with that .
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:26 PM   #25
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Formula given to me by a customer and now on my website - along with the coding for MSExcel:

PayPal Fees – An Explanation
The PayPal fee is always 3% plus, and fees are calculated using a simple algebraic formula.
PayPal price “y” determined when price plus shipping is represented by “x”.
y=(x*0.03)+(x+0.3)

Further explained, the PayPal price is the total plus 3%, plus an additional $0.30 on top of that.

Using MS Excel the formula would look like this: =SUM(0.03*B3)+0.3
In this case cell “B3” was the cell I used to input the cash price plus shipping.

For my benefit I have an additional cell to show the exact fee. I want the customer to decide if the fee is steep enough to warrant a money order or cheque.
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeManassas View Post
PayPal no longer requires you to have an account in order to pay. You can pay with a credit or debit card without an account. Visa will protect your purchase if you purchase with a credit card. I don't recommend making online purchases with a debit card.

I tried it by purchasing something through PayPal with my Visa card without logging into my PayPal account. The purchase appeared on my Visa account, but not on my PayPal .

This may be an alternative for those who do not like PayPal. Now if you don't use credit cards, or checks, or money orders, or cash, or barter, or wampum then I am out of suggestions.
I am considering such a thing as many people prefer to use creditcards. I will not place a shopping cart on my website since in spite of security software I am very leery regarding creditcard transactions through my website and most websites.
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Old 01-17-2017, 03:42 PM   #27
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if you're an eBay shopper like me, most only accept PayPal
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:24 PM   #28
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In the beginning, PayPal let me run $2000.00 through the credit card and then no more until I opened a separate bank account, just for them. Screw that.
Have since mostly avoided EBay since then and don't buy in the market place here if that is the only option.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:31 PM   #29
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Does anybody know if there is PayPal in the Philippines?
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:31 PM   #30
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I had a LOT of problems with eBay and completely stopped selling anything through them about a year ago. Since then PayPal spun off in to a separate company (I think they want to be more like a bank), and I have not had any problem with them at all.

I suspect that most of the PayPal hassles that folks had were really eBay policy hassles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 10acresandrocks View Post
In the beginning, PayPal let me run $2000.00 through the credit card and then no more until I opened a separate bank account, just for them. Screw that.
Have since mostly avoided EBay since then and don't buy in the market place here if that is the only option.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:51 PM   #31
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My experience was 10 years ago or more. Left a bad taste in my mouth and can't get rid of it. Want to use PayPal for CC verification, fine... but gift or what ever else they offer, naaaa.
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Old 01-17-2017, 04:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeManassas View Post
I had a LOT of problems with eBay and completely stopped selling anything through them about a year ago. Since then PayPal spun off in to a separate company (I think they want to be more like a bank), and I have not had any problem with them at all.

I suspect that most of the PayPal hassles that folks had were really eBay policy hassles.
Totally agree, Ebay can be an ass sometimes.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:03 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyvwobie View Post
Been using PayPal 13 years and never had an issue , screw money orders , I'm busy enough and rather not waste my time at the post office, always a long line. No protection from a money order , wait until you get ripped off , you have to fly to the state the fraud was committed , good luck with that .

I don't like USPS MOs, too much of a PITA for me. First off I live like 30 minutes from a PO. Then I get off work and have to try to get there before 4pm. Or get there saturday before noon. Too bad the USPS never devised a online payment system.
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:46 PM   #34
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You are in luck. PayPal is available in 202 countries and 25 currencies, including the Philippines.

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Does anybody know if there is PayPal in the Philippines?
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Old 01-17-2017, 05:57 PM   #35
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I have received 220 PayPal payments with not a single problem, and 2 MOs with a total of 2 problems. I live about 20 minutes from a small rural PO. If someone sends a MO for more than $5 they might not have the cash on hand and I have to make a trip to the bank. You also might get a Walmart or Piggly Wiggly MO which the PO will not cash anyway.

With PayPal you get confirmation that you have received payment, the shipping address is confirmed, you buy and print your postage (at a discount) right from PayPal, and you can schedule a free pickup of the package. No 40 minute round trip to the PO.

PayPal may not be perfect but I think a lot of the complaints that people have are from back in the dark ages. If you haven't tried PayPal since they separated from eBay you may be surprised at the improvements.

Quote:
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I don't like USPS MOs, too much of a PITA for me. First off I live like 30 minutes from a PO. Then I get off work and have to try to get there before 4pm. Or get there saturday before noon. Too bad the USPS never devised a online payment system.
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