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Old 08-14-2018, 06:45 PM   #1
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Default Pistol 7.75 or 11.85

I'm thinking about getting a complete 223/5.56 upper in 7.75" or 11.85". I'm asking what you guys think about each and why. Pro's and Con's. Pistol app. Will I be jumping in and out of cars/trucks Not likely, clearing buildings/rooms Not likely, only if SHTF. I do have long arms, I'm 6'+. Thanks.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:57 PM   #2
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Personally i would never go under 14.5".
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:16 PM   #3
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7" is for when you want to be the asshole at the range. Big boom, big fireball, big annoyance for everybody else.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:47 PM   #4
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Ballistics really drop off after the 10.5/11" length. So I would go with the 11.85" from a ballistics standpoint if you want it to be as useable as possible.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:52 PM   #5
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Between the two, the longer gets my vote. That is unless you absolutely need that short of a platform. Even then, If I wanted something that short, I'd go with something that burned more of it's powder in a short barrel (like a 9mm, 45, or subsonic 300blk). 5.56 has way too much fireball like blast out of a short barrel like that.

I think I agree with dsmtsi23 about no shorter than 14.5"; unless you're exclusively running a can on it.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:06 PM   #6
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10.5 or longer for .556, so I'd go with the 11.85
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:37 PM   #7
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11" or longer with a normal length lower receiver extension isn't a pistol (>26"), so you can use a foregrip. I do love my 10-1/2", but doing it again I would probably go 11".
BTW, 11" is still pushing 55 gr. at 2600 fps.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:48 PM   #8
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11" or longer with a normal length lower receiver extension isn't a pistol (>26"), so you can use a foregrip. I do love my 10-1/2", but doing it again I would probably go 11".
BTW, 11" is still pushing 55 gr. at 2600 fps.
Yup good point about being a "firearm" if you can get OAL > 26" on the build. That is what I am doing for my next AR pistol and go 11.5". Actually going to sell off my 10.5" setup as it left me just short of the OAL > 26".
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:31 PM   #9
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The longer barrel is a lot more useful. There was a decent velocity jump between 11.5" and 10.5", plus the reliability was supposed to be better with the 11.5" so I went with the 11.5". I'd only use a 7"-8" 5.56 as a range toy.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:11 PM   #10
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I got a 10.5" instead of a 7.5" for my lightweight build, because the lightest 7.5" I could find was less than an ounce lighter than the lightest 10.5".

For rule-of-law self-defense, 7.5" should be fine, considering it'll perform like a 16" at 200m, but ~10-11" is probably the better compromise, and definitely better at SHTF range. The longer barrel also gives you the option of carbine length gas instead of pistol, and less muzzle blast.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:29 PM   #11
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I have a 7.5". I figured if I'm going to go under 16", at least for my first AR pistol, I wanted to go real small. I don't care that much about the ballistics as I've never needed to shoot anyone in all my years of shooting, nor have most of the members here. Besides that, I'm sure it is more than capable if I ever had the need to use it for self defense.

The negatives I guess, are they are stupid loud indoors, but not bad in the open, and I shoot out in the open desert almost exclusively, rarely an actual range, and if it's over gassed and you don't have an adjustable gas block, the action can feel pretty violent, but with that said, I find it a blast (no pun intended) to shoot. I may one day get a 10.5" as well, but anything bigger than that, and I'll just use one of my 16" AR's.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoned_Oli View Post
11" or longer with a normal length lower receiver extension isn't a pistol (>26"), so you can use a foregrip. I do love my 10-1/2", but doing it again I would probably go 11".
BTW, 11" is still pushing 55 gr. at 2600 fps.
allllllllllmost. it becomes not a pistol ONCE you put on the VFG. a pistol has no barrel length limit You could put a freaking 20 inch barrel on a pistol lower and still be a "pistol" technically. being over 26 inches doesn't automatically make it a "other firearm", it has to have something like the VFG to convert it
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:20 AM   #13
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11.85"

There are some good ballistic charts on the web that show the drop off in velocity. For M193 I seem to recall that 11.5" could be expected to still reliably fragment out to 100 yards based on the minimum velocity of around 2,700 fps (?) could be off on that number, but somewhere around there.

Also there now are much better offerings out there in 5.56 that perform pretty well in short barrels as well as Hornady's 75gr flat base SBR which would be exactly what you would want. That and soft points like Speer GDSP in 64gr and 75gr.

Good luck
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:23 AM   #14
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Between the two, the longer gets my vote. That is unless you absolutely need that short of a platform. Even then, If I wanted something that short, I'd go with something that burned more of it's powder in a short barrel (like a 9mm, 45, or subsonic 300blk). 5.56 has way too much fireball like blast out of a short barrel like that.

I think I agree with dsmtsi23 about no shorter than 14.5"; unless you're exclusively running a can on it.
Good point Bakwa. And if I were going 9mm or .45 ACP no reason not to take it right down to 5"-6" IMHO
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:43 AM   #15
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11.85"

There are some good ballistic charts on the web that show the drop off in velocity. For M193 I seem to recall that 11.5" could be expected to still reliably fragment out to 100 yards based on the minimum velocity of around 2,700 fps (?) could be off on that number, but somewhere around there.

Also there now are much better offerings out there in 5.56 that perform pretty well in short barrels as well as Hornady's 75gr flat base SBR which would be exactly what you would want. That and soft points like Speer GDSP in 64gr and 75gr.

Good luck
Here are some helpful charts. 10.3-10.5" barrel is the shortest that I would probably go myself. 11.5" hits the sweet spot as you don't lose much from a 14.5" but you gain a lot in regards to length especially if you are going to run it suppressed.







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Old 08-15-2018, 12:51 AM   #16
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That top chart made me sell my 10.5 556 upper and buy an 11.5.

I do still have 10.5 uppers in 300blk and 9mm.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:40 AM   #17
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Would depend on the purpose, no question velocity loss and dwell time issue with shorter barrel, but for cqb 10.3 or 11+" just fine in the right setup, i.e. DD MK18.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:55 AM   #18
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Good stuff Burninglegs.
Thanks for putting in the work to find that.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:06 PM   #19
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Nice charts BL that top chart is what I had in mind
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:14 PM   #20
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if your gonna get an 11 inch or longer why bother? A pistol is a pistol and a 7.5 still has a ton of steam at pistol ranges. If you gonna do a pistol, do a pistol. If your gonna do a carbine, do a carbine.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:07 PM   #21
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if your gonna get an 11 inch or longer why bother? A pistol is a pistol and a 7.5 still has a ton of steam at pistol ranges. If you gonna do a pistol, do a pistol. If your gonna do a carbine, do a carbine.
I completely agree. I'm ok going maybe to 10.5", but after that, I'll just use a 16".
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:21 PM   #22
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if your gonna get an 11 inch or longer why bother? A pistol is a pistol and a 7.5 still has a ton of steam at pistol ranges. If you gonna do a pistol, do a pistol. If your gonna do a carbine, do a carbine.
For me it would be due to running it suppressed. Want the shortest length possible (since a suppressor will be on it) but want it long enough to still have good ballistics + operate well and not beat itself up + have minimal gas back in my face. The 10-11" range seems to be the shortest to go for most setups to still have good performance and have a very reliable setup that won't break itself apart. 10-11" setup still gives you a very small footprint for CQB setup.
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:13 AM   #23
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I have 4 uppers 10.5 to 11.5 all pistol builds. Its the ideal length for short and up to 200 yds shots...best of both...
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:22 AM   #24
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allllllllllmost. it becomes not a pistol ONCE you put on the VFG. a pistol has no barrel length limit You could put a freaking 20 inch barrel on a pistol lower and still be a "pistol" technically. being over 26 inches doesn't automatically make it a "other firearm", it has to have something like the VFG to convert it
You can't put a forward grip on a pistol without creating an AOW. Therefore it has to not be a pistol before you add the grip, so a >26" OAL with no stock is just a "firearm", not a pistol or rifle, with or without the forward grip.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/op...ndgun/download
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:36 AM   #25
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An OAL of 26" does not make a pistol into a "firearm." There is no max length in the ATF's "pistol" definition, nor is there a requirement that it be concealable.

Look at the Franklin Armory letter as that's what they used to get around it.



While one may not add a vertical foregrip to a pistol (since a "pistol" is, by definition, designed to be fired with one hand adding a second grip changes it to an "AOW"), the ATF determined that the addition of a foregrip to Franklin Armory's weapon transformed it into a "firearm," since its overall length (>26") renders it incapable of being concealed, which is a component of the definition of "AOW."

In other words, it slips between semantic cracks. It is the addition of the forward grip that made it a "firearm"--not its classification as a "firearm" that permitted the forward grip to be added.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:48 PM   #26
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I mean, how far out do you all plain on shooting an AR pistol that youre so worried about ballistics? I thought the main point of them were range Toys or CQB? Will a 7" not kill someone as well as an 11" at close range, or am I missing something?

I think intended purpose needs to be asked when these types of questions come up instead of giving blanketed advice. If you're plain is to shoot the pistol yards out, then an 11" maybe better. If it's for CQB, the ballistics out of the smaller barrel will be just fine...

I have several 16er rifles, so for my first AR pistol, I want something different... I'm going with a sub 10" AR15 and AR9 pistol.... I don't plan on shooting anyone for self defense from 100 to 200 yards away with any of them...

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Old 08-16-2018, 10:41 PM   #27
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I normal want all the speed I can get but I built a 7.5" pistol because I got a good deal on a barrel at Midway .

It breaks down into a brief case and is surprisingly accurate . I have been right at 1"and slightly under a bunch of trips . I haven't shot it a lot to say how reliable it is but it always shoots . has a 1-7 wylde chamber . it shoots 50 and 69 grain hand loads very well . the brake I added hurt accuracy a lot so its got to go .

I have fun with it as far as just being a range toy, Ill say this at 100 yards its going to be deadly and its going to hit what I aim at pretty precisely . Its as accurate as one of my other ar 15 rifles so aside from a lack of bullet performance that's the same as a regular rifle at say 300 yards it will work as needed .
Im considering adding a brace I like it so much .
Yes I considers it a toy but it has been on the trunk in the brief case on some trips . I can have it operational in under 10 seconds .

its bit hard to shoot off a bench being so short ( blew my bag a apart once ) but if you get it set down well its accurate .

I built it as toy but im going to take it out to SD for varmints . Ill give up some trajectory but Im sure it will be fine to 200 yards .

I added a 2.5 pound trigger and a cheap laser for up close stuff . at night .
Im not a big do dad guy but the lazer has helped coon eradication in the yard .

I am considering a 11" or so with a heavy barrel as well . but IMO I might as well have a rifle if I go much longer .

OH yea I built it for under $300 not counting the optic and drop in trigger in it now .





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Old 08-19-2018, 09:51 PM   #28
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10.5 or longer for .556, so I'd go with the 11.85
This ,for reliability reasons and terminal ballistics.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:15 PM   #29
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Your not going to war, and your not a Merch or hit man so it comes down to what you want.
Both have limited uses like range shooting and playing. I don't see much difference as both are very concealable in your car/truck or on your person. If you want that 7.5 then go for it or which ever one you want. I have the AK pistol and the Keltec AR pistol, keep them in the house for back up Home defense, play with them at the range. Not much good for anything else.
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Old 08-25-2018, 05:23 PM   #30
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I have a weakness for an 11.5 inch barrel + SBA3 brace... it's as close to the functionality of an SBR as you're going to get without going full SBR...

I got $600 in my pocket right now and am deciding whether to grab a BCM 11.5 inch upper to put on one of my completed lowers with SBA3, or buy a WASR 10 UF... not sure which one to get yet.
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:05 PM   #31
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A lot of the info has been mentioned already but this should help new folks looking at varied 5.56 barrel lengths
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:46 PM   #32
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I have a weakness for an 11.5 inch barrel + SBA3 brace... it's as close to the functionality of an SBR as you're going to get without going full SBR...

I got $600 in my pocket right now and am deciding whether to grab a BCM 11.5 inch upper to put on one of my completed lowers with SBA3, or buy a WASR 10 UF... not sure which one to get yet.
Both are fine options. The typical response will be get both. I'd probably lean more towards the WASR 10 if you don't have one yet. If you don't care about collecting and just want a shooter, I'd go the BCM. That is a solid upper.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:56 PM   #33
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Both are fine options. The typical response will be get both. I'd probably lean more towards the WASR 10 if you don't have one yet. If you don't care about collecting and just want a shooter, I'd go the BCM. That is a solid upper.
yeah, that's my conundrum. Both are good. I already have a WASR 10 (regular version), and an N-pap DF as an underfolder, but have been tempted on the WASR UF as well. My only gripe is that $770 shipped is a BIT on the pricey side for a wasr, even the added advangtage of the UF.....

The BCM 16 or 11.5 I have my eye on is a rock solid upper, and I have 8 full assembled and stripped lowers lying around, and that would make a great SHTF gun... but the WASR 10 is a limited item, which is why I'm waffling.
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:37 AM   #34
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I have a weakness for an 11.5 inch barrel + SBA3 brace... it's as close to the functionality of an SBR as you're going to get without going full SBR...

I got $600 in my pocket right now and am deciding whether to grab a BCM 11.5 inch upper to put on one of my completed lowers with SBA3, or buy a WASR 10 UF... not sure which one to get yet.
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Old 08-26-2018, 01:09 AM   #35
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I love my M92. So glad I jumped on Atlantic's deal a few years ago for $499 shipped with the SB47 brace. I sold that brace and use the SOB, so I was still not much over $500 when it was all said and done.

That's the thing, when deals come up, you gotta jump on them. I haven't ever seen the M92 as cheap as I bought mine since then, and probably never will.
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