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Old 11-17-2013, 01:50 PM   #71
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Default Does is apply to .308 rifle too?

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Originally Posted by Dferg10 View Post
You need to cut the muzzle nut off. Use a small hacksaw or dremel to cut the small weld holding the nut on. Be careful and do not hit the fsb, ruin the nut if you have to and use a small/hobby file and gun blue to fix an marks on the fsb. Once you cut the small weld, the nut comes off and you have standard 14MX1 LH threads. You will then have many options. That particular lash hidder was a bit hard to find, but they are out there. It is a US made M90 from a group buy years ago. I got it from a WTB add in the Marketplace in here, I think.
I just bought M77 chambered for .308 and would like to install a muzzle break for better accuracy. The nut is flash against the front sight and I cannot see any spot welding anywhere. I contacted Century and their techsupport wrote to me that they simply never took this nut off, and they don't know if it welded. They assume that it is threaded with 14x1LH like all the other AK variants and can be taken off. Could anybody who actually done this please tell me what it takes to remove the nut and what thread is there for the muzzle break?
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Old 11-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by huntmann View Post
I just bought M77 chambered for .308 and would like to install a muzzle break for better accuracy. The nut is flash against the front sight and I cannot see any spot welding anywhere. I contacted Century and their techsupport wrote to me that they simply never took this nut off, and they don't know if it welded. They assume that it is threaded with 14x1LH like all the other AK variants and can be taken off. Could anybody who actually done this please tell me what it takes to remove the nut and what thread is there for the muzzle break?
Info here>

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161172
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:34 PM   #73
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There are adapters out there that will allow conversion from angled ends back to square ends. not exactly sure about .308 conversions...have seen for other calibers.

Check out Iron Wood Designs for possible wood for that new toy. (hide wallet and try not to drool all over keyboard when you punch up IWD ! : ) )
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Old 11-17-2013, 03:42 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by franc View Post
There are adapters out there that will allow conversion from angled ends back to square ends. not exactly sure about .308 conversions...have seen for other calibers.

Check out Iron Wood Designs for possible wood for that new toy. (hide wallet and try not to drool all over keyboard when you punch up IWD ! : ) )
There is no adaptor for a Yugo slant cut receiver AFAIK. No IWD for a slant cut Yugo AFAIK. A standard Yugo stock will bolt up but the slant cut gap is revealed.
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:39 AM   #75
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Hey Dferg that puppy looks killer with the wood, nice job on the ace folder too. Truly inspiring rifle you have there guy.

I was in the market for a DMR, so I just bought one of these M77's and you guys have given me lots of ideas.

Hey Dferg, combatengineer, 17761812, or anyone else who has one in a folder configuration, I have a question you:

What is the over all length of it folded? I just ordered one and I am contemplating on doing a folder, but needs to be 30" or greater in Kah-LeeFornistan (at least.., thats what she said- Diane "Gobbles" Frankenfurterstein...that is).
seriously though if anyone knows...thanks ahead of time.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #76
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Thanks. It is slightly over 29" long from tip of muzzle (with no attachment on) to the back of Ace folding mechanism when folded. With the US M90 muzzle brake I have on it is slightly over 31" long when folded.
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:47 AM   #77
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In the link below., I finished up the rework on an M77 his weekend. These rifles have gotten even cheaper at $559 and free shipping at Cheaper than Dirt.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161172
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:53 AM   #78
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How is the accuracy? Is it comparable to another rifle like a FAL or M1A?
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
How is the accuracy? Is it comparable to another rifle like a FAL or M1A?
x2 what kind of groupings are people getting with these at 100yds?
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Old 11-19-2013, 04:35 PM   #80
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I have not had time to sit down for any length of shooti9ng time. When I first got the rifle I fired it for function and feed.
Then sat down for a quick zero with iron sights to verify shooting to point of aim. It was doing 3-5 inches at 100 yards under less that ideal conditions. New rifle, new trigger and a bit of mixed ammo at the time. More interested in functional and POA issues.

I did not use an optic but have mounted one for mock up. The rail setback is pretty far rear so a mount that is good for eye relief needs some study.
The same rail is also on the newer PAP x39 rifles so some info from that crowd can be helpful. I tried a ZRAK M76 scope and it was a bit to far to the rear for good eye relief.

Might not be back out with it till spring. Dunno?
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:43 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashpoint View Post
How is the accuracy? Is it comparable to another rifle like a FAL or M1A?
one problem here is the side mount on stamped receiver. This kind of mount is not suitable for heavy recoil stuff, it is fine for x39 or less but not a 308 (I do have a M77).
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:47 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guncats View Post
one problem here is the side mount on stamped receiver. This kind of mount is not suitable for heavy recoil stuff, it is fine for x39 or less but not a 308 (I do have a M77).
PSL rifles have the side rail on a stamped receiver. They can hold adequate zero. What information or experience are you basing your statement on?
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #83
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Nice rifle......I think I found my .308
me too
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brv1102 View Post
x2 what kind of groupings are people getting with these at 100yds?
a good M1A/M14 should be a whole lot more accurate. I would presume a good FAL would be significantly more accurate. It really depends on the quality of the M14 and FAL. The Yugo is not a 600 yd rifle. Probably 2.5 moa or less @ 100 yds or less with good ammo.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:30 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
PSL rifles have the side rail on a stamped receiver. They can hold adequate zero. What information or experience are you basing your statement on?
PSL is for longer range support than the AKM and better pin-point accuracy than a light machine gun, not exactly a sniper rifle, it can probably hold zero reasonably well but still....that mounting system doesn't have the same stability as what is on a SVD.

Like I said I do have a M77. And from my "tuning o-pap" thread, you probably know I also have a modified UTG-pro mount with a 1x Nikon on it (and that is a light scope). In that thread there is a picture showing the modification on the "under side of the rail" and the clearance between the rail and the rear sight leaf..... Well I put that UTG on my M77, tightened the screw and locked the lever, everything was nice and tight. There was the same amount of clearance between the rail and the rear sight. All was good. Now after I finished shooting my groups, I can see shiny marks on the rear sight leaf, apparently from the underside of the rail hitting it; and, on the underside of the rail, I can see the marking left by the impact from the rear sight leaf. And all was still nice and tight, nothing loose.

I don't think it was the UTG-pro. Maybe this system will still hold a zero, but I won't count on it too much.

For precision from a piston rifle.... maybe a Sig 716.

Last edited by guncats; 11-19-2013 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:35 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by MouseBoy View Post
a good M1A/M14 should be a whole lot more accurate. I would presume a good FAL would be significantly more accurate. It really depends on the quality of the M14 and FAL. The Yugo is not a 600 yd rifle. Probably 2.5 moa or less @ 100 yds or less with good ammo.
From what I have seen (not read), standard-grade M14 and FAL's are "2moa or larger" guns. Rifles built with match grade parts will of course shoot much better.

on the other hand, please do not ask me what kind of groups I am getting from my M77
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:42 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MouseBoy View Post
a good M1A/M14 should be a whole lot more accurate. I would presume a good FAL would be significantly more accurate. It really depends on the quality of the M14 and FAL. The Yugo is not a 600 yd rifle. Probably 2.5 moa or less @ 100 yds or less with good ammo.

And your "should be" is based on? Just wondering what M77 experience or data you have to share?

I do not think anything about the M77 is settled at this point. guncats., presuming the experience with a UTG product is the final answer. Sorry but more data needed.
As far as comparing to a M14 or FAL at this point., there is no data to compare. Just seat of the pants talk. comeonman.
I'm not defending the rifle., I only fired 30 rounds with open sites and one report of a UTG mount.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guncats View Post
From what I have seen (not read), standard-grade M14 and FAL's are "2moa or larger" guns. Rifles built with match grade parts will of course shoot much better.

on the other hand, please do not ask me what kind of groups I am getting from my M77
yes you are probably right 2.5 moa might be better than average for the Yugo. Maybe 3.5 moa average is more correct. That said, a good M14 with a little work (barrel and bedding) and match grade ammo should do 1 moa all day long. FAL? I still think the FAL would beat the Yugo. The Yugo is a stamped receiver, the FAL is milled.

Last edited by MouseBoy; 11-19-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:45 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
And your "should be" is based on? Just wondering what M77 experience or data you have to share?

I do not think anything about the M77 is settled at this point. guncats., presuming the experience with a UTG product is the final answer. Sorry but more data needed.
As far as comparing to a M14 or FAL at this point., there is no data to compare. Just seat of the pants talk. comeonman.
I'm not defending the rifle., I only fired 30 rounds with open sites and one report of a UTG mount.
no data, just speculating....but hope it's an "educated guess" ;-)
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:52 PM   #90
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no data, just speculating....but hope it's an "educated guess" ;-)
Thanks for the speculation., but really unless you are actually shooting a M77 or have data to share., there is not much "education" in the guess.
I mean accuracy data is just that., range, posted or personal ore published data with a firearm being discussed., ammo type, optics used etc.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:05 PM   #91
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The mount flexing on my M77 is a bit too obvious, I can push the rail toward the left using my thumb and see the rail move a little. I borrowed a POSP from my Saiga and tried it on the M77 and it was way too loose, I didn't dare to crank the lever all the way down but I don't think it would fit right.

Then I tried the UTG-pro on my V308.... goes on tight and fits tight, still can feel some flexing but it is a lot less than when it was on the M77.


Any body has a Midwest mount on his/her M77? does it flex?
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Old 11-19-2013, 10:51 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
Thanks for the speculation., but really unless you are actually shooting a M77 or have data to share., there is not much "education" in the guess.
I mean accuracy data is just that., range, posted or personal ore published data with a firearm being discussed., ammo type, optics used etc.
true, but good luck beating an M1A at the range. Or a decent FAL. As you know, AKs are not purchased for their accuracy. They are my favorite platform for a number of reasons. Accuracy?

Please remember, with so many variables in such a test, isn't "empirical data" from testing just speculation? To get verifiable results, you would need a statistical sample multiple samples of each firearm, plus some sort of standard of shooting conditions, ammo, shooter and firearm grade. Waaaaaay too many variables. The whole idea of being able to "scientifically prove" one is clearly better than the other is not practically, possible.

Last edited by MouseBoy; 11-20-2013 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:18 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by guncats View Post
one problem here is the side mount on stamped receiver. This kind of mount is not suitable for heavy recoil stuff, it is fine for x39 or less but not a 308 (I do have a M77).
This statement does not hold water, receiver mounted side rail is probably the best way to integrate a scope on a rifle that has a top dust cover

this arrangement is used on M84/PKM and they have a very violent recoil

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Originally Posted by guncats View Post

Like I said I do have a M77. And from my "tuning o-pap" thread, you probably know I also have a modified UTG-pro mount with a 1x Nikon on it (and that is a light scope). In that thread there is a picture showing the modification on the "under side of the rail" and the clearance between the rail and the rear sight leaf..... Well I put that UTG on my M77, tightened the screw and locked the lever, everything was nice and tight. There was the same amount of clearance between the rail and the rear sight. All was good. Now after I finished shooting my groups, I can see shiny marks on the rear sight leaf, apparently from the underside of the rail hitting it; and, on the underside of the rail, I can see the marking left by the impact from the rear sight leaf. And all was still nice and tight, nothing loose.

I don't think it was the UTG-pro. Maybe this system will still hold a zero, but I won't count on it too much.
The problem seems to be the UTG-pro scope mount, You can take military scope mounts off and on the rifle and they should hold zero!
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Old 11-20-2013, 04:45 AM   #94
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Utg is to damn low. You can't even use your irons with that pos mounted. Atleast that was the last one I bought in 2005
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:09 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by MouseBoy View Post
true, but good luck beating an M1A at the range. Or a decent FAL. As you know, AKs are not purchased for their accuracy. They are my favorite platform for a number of reasons. Accuracy?

Please remember, with so many variables in such a test, isn't "empirical data" from testing just speculation? To get verifiable results, you would need a statistical sample multiple samples of each firearm, plus some sort of standard of shooting conditions, ammo, shooter and firearm grade. Waaaaaay too many variables. The whole idea of being able to "scientifically prove" one is clearly better than the other is not practically, possible.
I'm not trying to "beat" an M1A or a Remington 700 or any other rifle.
The discussion is about some relatively new to the market., M77 rifles. I assume you do not own, handle or have any particular knowledge of this rifle nor it's capabilities.

The M77 may be a 2 or a 6 MOA., range time and results will tell.. Comparison to a M1A or FAL is meaningless to this conversation as there are no results to compare.
With due respect.., you are just blowing hot air. If you have practical data or information on the M77., please share it.

Sorting out the optics, furniture changes, shooting results and prices and so forth is helpful to new owners or potential buyers on a well priced rifle like the M77. IMHO.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:43 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTB View Post
This statement does not hold water, receiver mounted side rail is probably the best way to integrate a scope on a rifle that has a top dust cover
Note my statement was about "side mount on a stamped receiver can flex". It is not about the mount moving, it is the stamped receiver flexing.


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this arrangement is used on M84/PKM and they have a very violent recoil


I doubt the PKM has that violant a recoil. It is a very heavy gun, plus, that scope is on something intended for "hosing down" the target. if the zero walks a few MOA on it, so what, keep firing until it hits. Not exactly a setup for single shot precision.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:45 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
...The M77 may be a 2 or a 6 MOA., range time and results will tell.. .....
AKBlue, when you test fired your M77, did you notice any particular spread pattern in the groups?
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #98
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AKBlue, when you test fired your M77, did you notice any particular spread pattern in the groups?
Not really. As I indicated earlier., I was testing function, feed and general zero as in straight sights and hitting POA. I only fired like 30 rounds and some of that in semi quick fire just to look at expended brass., and test feed etc..
Since then I have been busy doing other stuff and the area where I shoot is off limits due to black powder, bow and shotgun deer season.
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:26 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guncats View Post
Note my statement was about "side mount on a stamped receiver can flex". It is not about the mount moving, it is the stamped receiver flexing.
This is what you said
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one problem here is the side mount on stamped receiver. This kind of mount is not suitable for heavy recoil stuff, it is fine for x39 or less but not a 308 (I do have a M77).
not all stamped receivers are created equal some can handle 308 and some can't also not all scope mount are created equal some are compatible with M21 rail and some are not


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I doubt the PKM has that violant a recoil. It is a very heavy gun, plus, that scope is on something intended for "hosing down" the target. if the zero walks a few MOA on it, so what, keep firing until it hits. Not exactly a setup for single shot precision.
one of the military requires is for a scope to hold zero (even on machine guns), as I said you should even be able to take it off and put it back on the rifle and it should remain zeroed
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Old 11-21-2013, 01:42 AM   #100
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Has anybody got one and shot it several hundred rounds? How do they do? I want to know because the first time at the range it is going to be at least 100 plus rounds.
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Old 11-21-2013, 09:23 AM   #101
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Has anybody got one and shot it several hundred rounds? How do they do? I want to know because the first time at the range it is going to be at least 100 plus rounds.
I guess you will find out., and can report your experience.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:10 PM   #102
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Quote:
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...also not all scope mount are created equal some are compatible with M21 rail and some are not



Any idea where one can get a correct mount for the M77?
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:30 PM   #103
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Has anybody got one and shot it several hundred rounds? How do they do? I want to know because the first time at the range it is going to be at least 100 plus rounds.
several hundred rounds? 308 is at least 50 cents a pop right now.....

I have test fired 30rd in an indoor range, (Tulammo 20rd, BrownBear 5rd, silverBear 5rd, all are 145gr FMJ). Only at 25yd.

Trigger is 4LB first stage, about 4.5LB 2nd stage, crispy break. (I did tweak the trigger pack a bit, the factory pull was not nearly as nice).

Front sand bagged, rear supported by resting the grip on the table, relatively stable.

functionality-wise, it would not cycle at gas setting 1; setting 2 cycled fine, positive ejection but not violent; one failure to feed when using Brown Bear 145gr FMJ (jammed nose up).

group wise,
-- all auto-fed groups exhibited some sort of 3+1+1 pattern (both iron sight groups and optic groups),
-- the one single-fed group (put one round in the mag, install, shoot, take out the mag, put another round in the mag, install, shoot....) using optic didn't show 3+1+1, much tighter group as well.

Need further testing using a different mag, since the 3+1+1 pattern suggests there might be a mag related issue.
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Old 11-21-2013, 10:28 PM   #104
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Quote:
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Any idea where one can get a correct mount for the M77?
Dunno about correct. But the search for a good workable, stable mount or optic combination is on my list. I have several optics to try. A ZRAK M76 optic fits and locks well but the eye relief is not good. The rail sets the optic too far t the rear.
If all else fails I can open the rear of the mount and install a stop thumb screw etc. But that is a 4th or 5th option. Other stuff to try.
I have a Krebs offset mount base that might work on a POSP scope.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:58 PM   #105
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went to the range tonight and tried a different mag. This time I also used an un-modified UTG-Pro so it wouldn't go as far forward (therefore has more rail engagement). Eye relief was good thanks to the Nikon 1x's wide eye-relief range.

Scoped group: shot 5rd of Brown Bear to seat the mount first, then 5 more rounds for group.
Not sure if it was the different mag or the new way of installing the mount, this time there was no 3+1+1, but the horizontal drifting (bullet holes drifting from right to left, over the course of 10 shots) was obvious, suggesting the optic mount was probably still flexing.

An iron sight group was shot right after, using silver bear.

-- Brown Bear (scoped): 1" 5-shot.
-- silver bear (iron sight) : 1" 4-shot, 1-3/4" 5-shot. The last shot went way high and opened up the group. I don't think the flyer was caused by me.

Distance 25yd, gas setting at 2.

I think I will put the rifle back into the case and wait for a suitable mount to show up on the market.

Last edited by guncats; 11-22-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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