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Old 11-22-2013, 12:08 AM   #106
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In those slow motion movies of AK 47s, the rear sight leaf bounces almost verticle, but seems to come back OK. Maybe to tight is not good?
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:26 AM   #107
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The results from the first range trip suggest the Tulammo 150gr FMJ was the most promising, with 3 shots in 1/2" and two fliers opening up the group to 1.5". It was a scoped group so maybe I can blame the fliers on the scope mount flexing. Maybe the Tulammo is a 2~3moa load in this gun but without a solid way to mount optics I don't want to waste more $$ on test ammo.

By the way, for those of you who is thinking about reloading for this gun: the M77 firing pin is free floating, it dents the primer when chambering the round. Probably don't want to use soft primers, just in case.

Last edited by guncats; 11-25-2013 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:37 AM   #108
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.

Last edited by guncats; 11-25-2013 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:44 AM   #109
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I recently listed new steel 10rd .308 magazines for the Yugoslavian PAP M77 PS on the APEX web site::

https://www.apexgunparts.com/product...oducts_id/3883



They are $29.75 each.
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Old 11-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dferg10 View Post
Update: RS Products mount with Aimpoint T-1 Micro 2 MOA. Still searching for a 1- 4x scope.



Nice upgrades! I have the same rifle, but cannot find a scope side-mount for it. AK mount seems to be a bit shorter and it does not lock. Your mount looks great, where did you find it?
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Old 11-23-2013, 04:23 PM   #111
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Default You will need a SVD scope bracket mount type.

I had a O pap for a short while and a PSL scope fitted just right.

This is so because the rail bracket in the Romanian PSL scope is made to copy the SVD design, hence the long groove.

SVD scope rail bracket.
http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...hot-swappable/

If you use a AK scope mount bracket it will bottom out before the scope gets any where close to the front of the rail. You would have to cut a slot on the bracket to let the upper rail guide to stick through it or mill the upper rail guide so the scope mount bracket would slide further forward.

Even then the square scope mount bracket will need quite some adjustment to fit tight.

AK scope rail bracket.
http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...hot-swappable/

Below is the scope rail bracket that will fit the best the Yugo PAP and M77, notice there are two choices the high and lower one. Below is the high one.

http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...o-weaver-rail/
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Last edited by Jaimenv; 11-23-2013 at 04:27 PM. Reason: more info.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:05 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimenv View Post
I had a O pap for a short while and a PSL scope fitted just right.

This is so because the rail bracket in the Romanian PSL scope is made to copy the SVD design, hence the long groove.

SVD scope rail bracket.
http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...hot-swappable/

If you use a AK scope mount bracket it will bottom out before the scope gets any where close to the front of the rail. You would have to cut a slot on the bracket to let the upper rail guide to stick through it or mill the upper rail guide so the scope mount bracket would slide further forward.

Even then the square scope mount bracket will need quite some adjustment to fit tight.

AK scope rail bracket.
http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...hot-swappable/

Below is the scope rail bracket that will fit the best the Yugo PAP and M77, notice there are two choices the high and lower one. Below is the high one.

http://kalinkaoptics.com/catalog/pro...o-weaver-rail/
Thanks, I've been to this site today, but did not think it is going to work, because they specifically list all the rifles it is good for, and there isn't Zastava mentioned there. Is my railing the same as Dragunov? it will be easier to look.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:43 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntmann View Post
Thanks, I've been to this site today, but did not think it is going to work, because they specifically list all the rifles it is good for, and there isn't Zastava mentioned there. Is my railing the same as Dragunov? it will be easier to look.
The M21 Yugo rails in the PAP and M77 are quite new to the USA. They may work with various optics. It will be somewhat trial & error.
Kalinka is a good source but not the last word in optics either.
I'll be trying various scopes and mounts in the coming weeks. As noted already tried the M76., fits fine but eye relief is not good., too far to the rear..
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:14 PM   #114
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Default Not the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by huntmann View Post
Thanks, I've been to this site today, but did not think it is going to work, because they specifically list all the rifles it is good for, and there isn't Zastava mentioned there. Is my railing the same as Dragunov? it will be easier to look.
Yet similar design, better say compatible with the SVD Dragunov design.

Barrow a PSL scope and try it on the M77 and see how well it fits once the latch is adjusted correctly. It will look and feel like it belongs there.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:50 AM   #115
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Default Mill off some of the upper rail guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
The M21 Yugo rails in the PAP and M77 are quite new to the USA. They may work with various optics. It will be somewhat trial & error.
Kalinka is a good source but not the last word in optics either.
I'll be trying various scopes and mounts in the coming weeks. As noted already tried the M76., fits fine but eye relief is not good., too far to the rear..
Yea Kalinka is just a convenient place to get pictures from .

Hey Great job on your M77, I am going to do the Tabuk look alike it is just awesome.
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:17 PM   #116
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I saw this on another website(can't remember who tho) the op used a yugo ak47 stock, filler for the rec rear, and M14 mags, which he said were an "easy mod".

Never mind. I should of read the entire article before posting. AKblue is the person I was referring to.

Last edited by cbay1951; 11-25-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:09 PM   #117
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Default Which Ironwood stock set

Hey guys, just ordered this rifle and was wondering if m70 handgaurds would fit, i plan on ordering a set from ironwood and dont wanna mess this up lol. Oh and im gonna test fit a dsa fal mag and a m14 mag and let you guys know which is easier to modify ( since i ordered both for testing), they go for about $15 ea.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:19 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by davidvh86 View Post
Hey guys, just ordered this rifle and was wondering if m70 handgaurds would fit, i plan on ordering a set from ironwood and dont wanna mess this up lol. Oh and im gonna test fit a dsa fal mag and a m14 mag and let you guys know which is easier to modify ( since i ordered both for testing), they go for about $15 ea.
A lot of information in this thread you are in if you read the posts and open the linked posts etc>

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=78
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:15 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by guncats View Post
PSL is for longer range support than the AKM and better pin-point accuracy than a light machine gun, not exactly a sniper rifle, it can probably hold zero reasonably well but still....that mounting system doesn't have the same stability as what is on a SVD.
True, a stamped receiver won't be as solid as a milled, but the M77 has a shorter receiver than the PSL and it's 1.5mm. That means it's more rigid. A lot of people claim to shoot 2 minutes or less with the PSL.

Quote:
Like I said I do have a M77. And from my "tuning o-pap" thread, you probably know I also have a modified UTG-pro mount with a 1x Nikon on it (and that is a light scope). In that thread there is a picture showing the modification on the "under side of the rail" and the clearance between the rail and the rear sight leaf..... Well I put that UTG on my M77, tightened the screw and locked the lever, everything was nice and tight. There was the same amount of clearance between the rail and the rear sight. All was good. Now after I finished shooting my groups, I can see shiny marks on the rear sight leaf, apparently from the underside of the rail hitting it; and, on the underside of the rail, I can see the marking left by the impact from the rear sight leaf. And all was still nice and tight, nothing loose.

I don't think it was the UTG-pro. Maybe this system will still hold a zero, but I won't count on it too much.
Your problem is that you are using Chinese crap.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:18 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by guncats View Post
went to the range tonight and tried a different mag. This time I also used an un-modified UTG-Pro so it wouldn't go as far forward (therefore has more rail engagement). Eye relief was good thanks to the Nikon 1x's wide eye-relief range.

Scoped group: shot 5rd of Brown Bear to seat the mount first, then 5 more rounds for group.
Not sure if it was the different mag or the new way of installing the mount, this time there was no 3+1+1, but the horizontal drifting (bullet holes drifting from right to left, over the course of 10 shots) was obvious, suggesting the optic mount was probably still flexing.

An iron sight group was shot right after, using silver bear.

-- Brown Bear (scoped): 1" 5-shot.
-- silver bear (iron sight) : 1" 4-shot, 1-3/4" 5-shot. The last shot went way high and opened up the group. I don't think the flyer was caused by me.

Distance 25yd, gas setting at 2.

I think I will put the rifle back into the case and wait for a suitable mount to show up on the market.
You shot a 1" group at 25 yards and you don't think the flyer was you? The gun won't string that much at that distance. You're talking 4 MOA group! You're also the one that was claiming to have UTG crap on your rifle. Whole lot of WTF here.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:19 AM   #121
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I got my M77 in today. Really impressed. The bore and chamber are dark. Are these barrels Melonite?
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:29 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter View Post
You shot a 1" group at 25 yards and you don't think the flyer was you? The gun won't string that much at that distance. You're talking 4 MOA group! You're also the one that was claiming to have UTG crap on your rifle. Whole lot of WTF here.
The gun itself might not string by that much. Ammo/sight (how stable the optic mount is) can also contribute to the group size, no?

You are too eager to blame the shooter, you should only talk group size after you have test fired your M77. Too many assumptions.
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:38 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter View Post
True, a stamped receiver won't be as solid as a milled, but the M77 has a shorter receiver than the PSL and it's 1.5mm. That means it's more rigid. A lot of people claim to shoot 2 minutes or less with the PSL.


Your problem is that you are using Chinese crap.
mount an optic mount to your M77 and see. The rail on M77 is not the same as the PSL rail.

You can search a picture of the UTG-pro on the web, it shows where it is made. On the other hand, it is not much better than the more common "made in China" UTG 978 mount. I don't like the 978 (too bulky), but machine quality-wise they are similar.

what mount do you plan to use?
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Old 11-28-2013, 05:38 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guncats View Post
mount an optic mount to your M77 and see. The rail on M77 is not the same as the PSL rail.

You can search a picture of the UTG-pro on the web, it shows where it is made. On the other hand, it is not much better than the more common "made in China" UTG 978 mount. I don't like the 978 (too bulky), but machine quality-wise they are similar.

what mount do you plan to use?
So is the m77 rail wider than a psl? I am under the impression that it is compatible with the svd mounts/scopes.

I fitted a opap with a psl scope and it worked good.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:54 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by guncats View Post
The gun itself might not string by that much. Ammo/sight (how stable the optic mount is) can also contribute to the group size, no?

You are too eager to blame the shooter, you should only talk group size after you have test fired your M77. Too many assumptions.
You stated one of your groups was with irons. That rules out the mount. Sorry, having a hard time believing the ammo is that bad. Sure, I'll shoot mine soon. One thing is for sure: I won't be shooting 4 minutes.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by guncats View Post
mount an optic mount to your M77 and see. The rail on M77 is not the same as the PSL rail.

You can search a picture of the UTG-pro on the web, it shows where it is made. On the other hand, it is not much better than the more common "made in China" UTG 978 mount. I don't like the 978 (too bulky), but machine quality-wise they are similar.

what mount do you plan to use?
Don't worry about what mount I plan to use. It won't be a UTG.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:56 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimenv View Post
So is the m77 rail wider than a psl? I am under the impression that it is compatible with the svd mounts/scopes.

I fitted a opap with a psl scope and it worked good.
A POSP/SVD mount fits the rail., similar/same as SVD/PSL rail for fit.. I tried a PSL TIP2 the other day and it mounts and has good eye relief initially. An M76 scope fits as well. I will be trying other options over the next few weeks and try to get pics and initial results etc., Unfortunately the true test is firing the rifle with the optic in place but the weather is not cooperating and deer season limits my private property shooting.

One thing that is confusing is the rail name. The same rail is used on the PAP x39 rifles. That alone is a bit confusing but also the original M77 imports by Mitchell and perhaps military had a different rail on them. It was a unique width as well and a difficult fit., it looked like this (this is on a Yugo M95 but same rail as on Mitchell M77)>>



Not trying to confuse the "rail" thing but., I heard or read the rail called a M21., dunno as that is the DMR rifle designation IIRC.
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Old 11-28-2013, 01:19 PM   #128
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Default Yea I had a Mitchel M90.

[QUOTE=AKBLUE;1740812]



QUOTE]

With the same scope rail, a royal PITA to find a scope or mount that would fit it. Like you mention it is wider than usual and it sits way higher.

Here is the mount for the rail above.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142952
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:53 PM   #129
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A local shop had one of these in stock for $589 OTD. If I could have gotten a decent sight picture with the factory thumholestock I would have gotten it then. What the heck is up with this? I shoulder the rifle and I am looking at the bottom of the front sight. I dig my check into the stock, face plant, and I can get a sight picture, but there is no way I am going to pull the trigger like this. Tried going closer to the reciever and it was a little better but not much. I handed this rifle to a half doxen people and they seem to agree. What is up with this "high comb" stock? This sucks.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter View Post
I got my M77 in today. Really impressed. The bore and chamber are dark. Are these barrels Melonite?
No it's the same blue/black finish on the outside of the barrel and the rest of the rifle.
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Old 11-30-2013, 09:03 PM   #131
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No it's the same blue/black finish on the outside of the barrel and the rest of the rifle.
You don't know what you're talking about bro.
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Old 12-01-2013, 10:50 PM   #132
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You don't know what you're talking about bro.
You don't know what you're talking about bro. It's nothing special but you can wish in one hand.
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Old 12-02-2013, 09:37 PM   #133
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I added some Yugo M70 wood that I got from Apex. I also added a Ronin's Grips pistol grip. I swapped out the Ace folding mechanism for a StormWerkz version. I am a big fan of the Ace, but I think the StormWerkz is better because it locks in both open and closed position.

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Old 12-05-2013, 03:20 AM   #134
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Default Just got my rifle and its a lemon

just got my rifle and at first glace their was a huge dent on the front sight block, it didnt really bother me so i proceed clean to break down the action only to discover that my firing pin retaining pin was stuck and after a few nerve wracking taps with a hammer and punch to force it out i discovered the pin was deformed on one end. Oh and the bolt has some really sharp edges that my other zastava and saiga bolts dont have. Is anyone else having similar issues?
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Old 12-05-2013, 09:47 AM   #135
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Default Yea on the bolt for sure,

It looks like they grinded the bolt lugs to fit the trunnion in a hurry .

Also the receiver cut for the bolt carrier removal spot are rough to say the least, yet nothing that can't be cleaned up with some TLC.
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Old 12-05-2013, 10:05 AM   #136
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It looks like they grinded the bolt lugs to fit the trunnion in a hurry .

Also the receiver cut for the bolt carrier removal spot are rough to say the least, yet nothing that can't be cleaned up with some TLC.
Got to agree these are not the quality of my Mitchel 308 RPK or M90 223. Get out the file, hones and stones and knock off the rough spots. Most gritty trigger ever on a Yugo but worth the $520 paid.
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Old 12-05-2013, 12:42 PM   #137
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Does anyone know of the misshaped pin could have damaged the rtaining pin hole in the bolt? Im assuming the pin is softer metal than the bolt head. I dont feel like sending it to century so they can just replace the pin, its only 2 bucks lol.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:11 PM   #138
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You will find out when you get the replacement. The bolts are very hard., I doubt there is an issue. You should be able to ream the hole with a fine needle file if there us a burr or burnish the pin if it is too tight. Just do not try to bludgeon it into place. Should be tight but not pounded.
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #139
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Default Maybe another reason for the mishaped fire pin retaining pin

Well i was thinking and realized that this isnt just a larger version of a standard ak bolt since the fire pin retaining pin isnt located on the guide lug, its located directly in font of the lug. So Maybe the flared/ misshaped end of the pin was intended to jam the pin in place since the bolt carrier guide channel wouldn't be able to keep it in during operation because of the new pin location. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 12-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #140
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It appears you are over thinking this. Is the firing pin in place a retaining the firing pin?. .,Does the pin move freely? Is the extractor pin retainer pin in properly & secure? If so, go shooting & enjoy.
Post a pic for comparison response if you want confirmation.
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