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Old 09-21-2006, 11:00 AM   #1
Accurizer
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Default .308: RockRiver or DPMS

DPMS, Armalite and (soon) Rock River Arms are marketing .308 super accurate battle rifles based on the proven AR-15/M-16 concept.


http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/r308varm1.gif

http://www.dpmsinc.com/images/RFA2-308.jpg

(couldn't find a good photo of the AR-10 on the Armalite site)

Question:

What's the word on "the best" of these?

Quality
Accuracy
Availability of parts
Mags

etc.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:30 PM   #2
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The Rock River appears to be exactly the same as the Armalite AR-10.Forged 7075 receiver and M-14 mag.The DPMS is exactly the same as Knight's SR-25.Both are better designs than the Hesse/Vulcan design and the Bushmaster design that kept breaking.For the price the DPMS is hard to beat.The receivers are lower grades of aluminum but shouldn't effect it.The hammer and trigger pin holes are suppose to hold up better in the 7075 but in semi auto I doubt you'll see a difference.On well worn M16's in 7075 these holes do wear out.Very early M16's were 6061.The DPMS is 6061 and 6066.I think the lower is milled from 6061 billet and the upper is extruded 6066.I may have those backwards but I think that's it.The SR-25 is made in a similar fashion with a much higher price.
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Old 09-21-2006, 01:54 PM   #3
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allesennogwat;

Interesting, I just read that some think Rock River actually made the ill-fated Bushmaster .308. Rock River are trying to improve it to sell under their brand name, which is why delivery dates have been pushed back almost a year. The fact that the Rock River will use standard FAL mags (incidentally, exactly like the discontinued Bushmaster .308 did) is a big plus for me as I've got dozens of FAL mags.

DPMS were initially delivered with problematic plastic mags. Steel are available for $40 apiece.

I've read that the quality and accuracy of the Armalite AR-10 is not the best.

So, I suppose I was hoping the Rock River, using FAL mags was the best. Unfortunately, it's not on the market yet and no telling if or when it will be. It sounds like if the RR doesn't make it, then the next best choice is the DPMS, and any money saved would be plowed into buying some of those pricey mags.

The Knight is retailing for $3,500 (when you can find one) and the mags are going for $90 each (!) http://www.impactguns.com/store/KMC-98029.html http://www.impactguns.com/store/kmc_sr25.html
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:00 PM   #4
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Stay away from those Bushmaster FAL mag rifles.They have problems,mainly the bolts crack/break.Also they do an odd thing to the receiver to get the FAL mags to fit.The DPMS will take standard SR-25 mags.I only got one because it was so cheap but it's been a great rifle.I compared it to my SR-25 and it's the only one that everything seems interchangeable.The Armalite AR-10 can be accurate.The early barrels weren't great but I think they've sorted that out.Are the Rock River rifles as expensive as the Bushmasters were?
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:27 PM   #5
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You have a DPMS Panther .308 and a Knights SR-25?

The Rock Rivers are still having 'teething' problems, probably the same bolt cracking you speak of, due to the FAL mags. So, okay, maybe the FAL mags is a bad idea.

...which leave the DPMS or the Knights SR-25. Frankly, my impulse at this point is to save the extra money and get on the Knight's waiting list. The DPMS long bull-barrel model is going for about $1200. The Knights is going for triple that.
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Old 09-21-2006, 02:40 PM   #6
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Supposedly the bolt problem was tracked to bad heat treating.
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Old 09-21-2006, 03:05 PM   #7
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I bought the SR-25 a long time ago.Knights wouldn't sell me an extra upper without sending to rifle back to be fitted.Now Knights won't sell you an extra upper at all.Armalite makes special uppers that fit the SR-25 from time to time.They are different from the AR-10 upper and not interchangeable.I'm not sure Armalite will make anymore.I saw the DPMS when it first came out.I thought wow that's cheap.Had the plastic magazine and the dealer didn't know if any other mag would work.It's the closest to the SR-25 in every way.The Bushmaster has an odd piece of steel inserted in the lower receiver and the receiver "looks" longer.Maybe,maybe not.I liked the fact that both inch and metric FAL mags worked in it.The price was high and reports of bolts breaking.The Hesse/Vulcan 308 AR takes FAL mags too.I think they are modified so the receiver isn't "extended".I don't know about these days but DPMS AR15's used a bunch of Korean made parts.Always gave me a bad taste but I figured the 308 parts weren't Korean.I only bought it because of the price but it's been a great rifle.I'm checking now if DPMS wil;l sell me an extra upper receiver.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:26 PM   #8
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Interesting question really and timely. My friend has an Armalite and I have a DPMS. He hates his and said so when we went out to break in my new DPMS. I found out why at the range. His rifle had alot of trouble with jams while shooting, depending on the amm we used. My rifle said not to use South African as it may cause feed problems. I did and it shot everything I put through it and well. Accuracy, when his rifle was actually firing was about the same. I was impressed as his 20 inch barrel verse my 16 inch barrel resulted in a tie.

Incidentally he is looking to sell his Armalite. Email me for details.
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Old 09-22-2006, 09:09 AM   #9
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I've heard of people complain about jams in the AR-10 with certain ammo.It doesn't seem to be consistant or all of them.They are fitted tightly.I haven't heard of too many problems with the AR-10's.Not like the Bushmasters.I almost bought an AR-10 then the DPMS came out and I relized how much more similar it is to my SR-25.All I can tell about the South African ammo is it has the lowest gas push on the bolt carrier.Maybe the "feed" problem is when it doesn't push the bolt carrier back far enough.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:45 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandaree36
His rifle had alot of trouble with jams while shooting, depending on the amm we used.

Incidentally he is looking to sell his Armalite. Email me for details.
Uhhhhhhhh....
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:51 AM   #11
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After "Googling" all variations of the names of these rifles and 'ratings' 'reviews' 'accuracy' etc., and visiting at least a dozen boards like this one, I'm not sure what to do.

The ones with the least problems/most favorable comments seem to be the DPMS and Knights. The fact that the Knights has been selected as the official rifle of the Navy Seals and Socom, says a bit about them. But that price. :-(
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Old 09-22-2006, 11:11 AM   #12
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Knight's is real funny about getting parts.He doesn't need the money he has huge government contracts making other much bigger things.The rifles are only made from to to time on a limited basis.Even Knight's AR15's are overpriced and they are standard AR15 forging not unique parts like the SR-25.The DPMS is a great deal!!Almost none of the 308 AR's from different makers have parts that are interchangeable.The DPMS is closest to the SR-25.The Bushmasters are way overpriced for the problems they have.They quit making them.Armalite is best about getting parts.I haven't tried getting DPMS parts yet.A few years ago I bought two AR-10 lower receiver blank forgings from Armalite for $75 each.I never tried to finish machine them.I talked with Armalite's owner on the phone and he made me sign a paper stating I wouldn't put his company name on the receiver blanks.Armalite also at one time made replacement uppers that fit the SR-25.The AR-10 uppers don't fit the SR-25 and good luck trying to buy one from Knoight's.He first told me I had to send my SR-25 to be fitted.Them he quit selling extra uppers altogether and you must buy a second rifle to switch anything.Armalite was really cool about it and their prices are reasonable.I couldn't believe the DPMS price.I bought the first one I saw.
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Old 09-22-2006, 12:45 PM   #13
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allesennogwat;

Now that is good food for thought. Based on what you've opined, it's DPMS's sale to lose. I'm going to continue stroking my chin as I seek support for the DPMS purchase. I wonder why mil.gov didn't go with the DPMS .308? I thought DPMS already supplied some of the M-16's and variants to the military?

Thanks for the valuable input. Because this might be the last one for awhile, I want it to be a purchase I can live with and be very assured that I did the right thing over.
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:52 PM   #14
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DPMS only recently came out with the 308 model.Knight's has been a govt contractor for years.Much more expensive things than rifles.DPMS is a govt supplier in name only.When they first started selling AR15's nearly all of the parts were made in Korea.I've seen some rough looking Bushmaster AR15 bolts and often wondered from where they came.DPMS quality has gotten much better in the last few years.The Panther looks like a straight copy of the SR-25.The SR-25 is all hand fitted.Armalite mangaged to make uppers that dropped right on them though,Something Knight's won't do.They won't sell bare uppers.It's hard to get any parts from them.The owner isn't concerned with making money on civilian sales.There is one shop in Florida that can get parts sometimes.I found a rich dealerr that buys a lot from Knight's and has visited Florida and the owner.The dealer is in PA.I don't know the aluminum of the SR-25 but the meathod of construction is exactly like the DPMS.On paper the AR-10's 7075 is technically the best.But it is still aluminum.I think Buxhmaster quit their 308 rifle without resolving the bolt breaking problem.The Hesse takes modified FAL mags that won't work in the FAL after modding.Funny thing is these were made during the mag ban.If Rock River is based on the Bushmaster I don't know I'd trust it.That and those Bushmasters were way more expensive than Armalite or DPMS.
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