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Old 02-21-2016, 12:31 PM   #1
Rob Ski
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Default Polish AKM from WBP - 500 shots and?

WBP, cast made parts for AK go through the Union's farm...
This is part 1 of 5000 rds test.
Detailed pictures inside video.

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Old 02-21-2016, 12:53 PM   #2
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Thanks to everyone involved on this project.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Thanks to everyone involved on this project.
I agree as well.
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AKs that require a recoil buffer to function are BROKEN.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:22 PM   #4
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Very interesting to see how this turns out, especially the deformity of the bolt carrier. That looks a little rough just for 500 rounds (have a WW74 with over 2K and looks a tad bit better, but 5.45).

Rob Ski, on your path to 5,000 rounds, could you do a video on running the AK with slings?
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:39 PM   #5
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Is it a G2 trigger? If so, we can't fault the metallurgy for the deformation as these hammers will deform the tail on many surplus carriers as well.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:43 PM   #6
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Is it a G2 trigger? If so, we can't fault the metallurgy for the deformation as these hammers will deform the tail on many surplus carriers as well.
I asked the same thing in the comments section of the video.
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Old 02-21-2016, 01:48 PM   #7
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Is it a G2 trigger? If so, we can't fault the metallurgy for the deformation as these hammers will deform the tail on many surplus carriers as well.
Deformation clearly is from trigger hammer. I could at this point do some work on trigger and maybe beef up recoil spring to slow down bolt carrier little bit. Or just keep it intact and wait to see what is going to happen...
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:03 PM   #8
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I wouldnt change anything. if you do some will say the results are "tainted"
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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I wouldnt change anything. if you do some will say the results are "tainted"
I agree. Leave it stock and see how she holds up all the way through.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:05 PM   #10
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I agree. Run it like it comes. Shouldn't have to work on shit out of the box.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ski View Post
Deformation clearly is from trigger hammer. I could at this point do some work on trigger and maybe beef up recoil spring to slow down bolt carrier little bit. Or just keep it intact and wait to see what is going to happen...
Leave it. Most of us still run Tapco G2's. (Waiting on the AKT-E)
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:08 PM   #12
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Interesting. I'm going to keep an eye on this. Thanks for all you do. You and Mrgunsngear are my favorite youtube channels.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:14 PM   #13
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I wouldnt change anything. if you do some will say the results are "tainted"
It makes my life easier. I'm not touching it.

But i will change furniture to old, beat up wood, because i can't stand that plastic. Nothing wrong with it, but that stock just doesn't sit well with me.

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Interesting. I'm going to keep an eye on this. Thanks for all you do. You and Mrgunsngear are my favorite youtube channels.
Thanks for being with us!
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:36 PM   #14
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Rob, will you be doing an under the hood review on this rifle?
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:37 PM   #15
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Very interesting. Bolt carrier tail deformation looks similar to the N-PAP/O-PAP issues some were having in the past. Probably the G2 as others have been saying.

Same thing happened to a WASR that I had a G2 in. No functional issues, just cosmetic. Mind you, the BCG of a WASR is not cast either. This new production stuff looks promising.

Also, I ordered a V-Project (WBP) combo gas block for a build that whitecrane is making for me, so we'll see how that sucker holds up. Should be fine considering Russia and Romania used investment cast parts for a while. (Gas block, front sight, and possibly HG retainer). I like their production facility as well; looks top notch.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:43 PM   #16
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Rob, will you be doing an under the hood review on this rifle?
Every 500 rds i will be doing episode and taking it apart and show guts in HD, that's like under the hood, but with real action...:-)
And we have much more planned for that rifle...oh boy...just waiting for Paul to be back.
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:46 PM   #17
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Every 500 rds i will be doing episode and taking it apart and show guts in HD, that's like under the hood, but with real action...:-)
And we have much more planned for that rifle...oh boy...just waiting for Paul to be back.
I cant wait, I have been itching for another torture test!
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Old 02-21-2016, 02:50 PM   #18
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Not my picture, but if you notice the stock G2 with it's angle.....that angle rests perfectly against the carrier tail.

The hammer will not move in any other direction but it's intended arc.

The carrier however, will move upward as it pushes back on the hammer.

The hammers sharp angle looks as if it is on the front side of the arc path. Meaning, it will still travel up as it rotates to the down side if the radial path.

See if I can explain this better. If you take a ball and draw a dot on it. If the dot is on the left side not directly on top, on the left side. And you want the dot to move to the right side. The dot must first travel up to the top, before it will then be heading down on the right side.

This is placing a lot of pressure on the carrier tail and the hammer face. The hammer is pinned in place, but the carrier has some room to lift up as it pushes back on the hammer.

As with machining, the cutter must be harder than the metal being cut.

So we know the G2 is really hard...harder than the carrier...so the tail gets "machined" from the "cutter" or the hammer in this case.

Then again...I could be completely wrong.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:00 PM   #19
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Mel, deformation on WBP rifle is 100% from the trigger hammer - i know that for sure.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:03 PM   #20
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Thanks for the review Rob! More options are better for us vendors/buyers/shooters
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:04 PM   #21
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Think an ALG would be kinder on the carrier?
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:05 PM   #22
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It would be interesting to take a rifle like a pap, install akt trigger fire 500 or 1000 rds then swap in a G2 and fire 500 or 1000 rds and see the difference
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:11 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Ski View Post
Mel, deformation on WBP rifle is 100% from the trigger hammer - i know that for sure.
The stock hammers I have all seem to be "flat" all the way down the face.

The G2 has that sharp angle.

The stock hammers are still rotating in a radial arc, but the tail is just pushing the hammer. There still can be deformation, but it's usually from a lot of rounds or treatment problems.

The G2 when the sharp angle is filed or rounded over. Will allow the carrier to ride more smoothly over the contact area.

But left alone, the sharp edge is like a poll vault. After the carrier tail is smashed enough, it will work smoothly....but this is not really the preferred method.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Think an ALG would be kinder on the carrier?
My ALG has done some slight deformation to my carrier....
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:15 PM   #25
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Thanks Rob and crew!
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:15 PM   #26
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Thanks for taking on this project and doing a good honest review. I hope you guys are coming back to Las Vegas so I can take a class from you guys!
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:23 PM   #27
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The G2 when the sharp angle is filed or rounded over. Will allow the carrier to ride more smoothly over the contact area.
This is why i was asking if you guys want me to do "trigger job"...i agree with you in 100% here.

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Thanks for taking on this project and doing a good honest review. I hope you guys are coming back to Las Vegas so I can take a class from you guys!
Yes we are back in LV in late May, check our store, 2 spots left...;-)
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:45 PM   #28
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Did they go up 20$ I thought they were 369$; no furniture. Fuck , it sucks being late to the party!
http://armsofamerica.com/polishmodel...furniture.aspx
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:47 PM   #29
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Since this was assembled by definitive how does it compare to the DAKM 4150?
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:48 PM   #30
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This is what the ALG has done to the carrier tail. Very little deformation to my carrier tail...the ALG does have a slight angled area like the G2...but it rides smoother than a G2.

The ALG has only about 200 rounds on it....but that little burr was not there before it was installed.
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Old 02-21-2016, 03:59 PM   #31
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Could the alg be "deburred"?
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:04 PM   #32
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Could the alg be "deburred"?
Yes...but as shown, the ALG will still deform the carrier tail, just not anything like the G2 will.

It's really a non issue with the ALG.

Regardless if you use the G2 or ALG, the hammers are "harder" than the carrier tail.
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:05 PM   #33
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...but I think we need to get back to Robs video....sorry Rob.
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Old 02-21-2016, 04:10 PM   #34
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Not my picture, but if you notice the stock G2 with it's angle.....that angle rests perfectly against the carrier tail.

The hammer will not move in any other direction but it's intended arc.

The carrier however, will move upward as it pushes back on the hammer.

The hammers sharp angle looks as if it is on the front side of the arc path. Meaning, it will still travel up as it rotates to the down side if the radial path.

See if I can explain this better. If you take a ball and draw a dot on it. If the dot is on the left side not directly on top, on the left side. And you want the dot to move to the right side. The dot must first travel up to the top, before it will then be heading down on the right side.

This is placing a lot of pressure on the carrier tail and the hammer face. The hammer is pinned in place, but the carrier has some room to lift up as it pushes back on the hammer.

As with machining, the cutter must be harder than the metal being cut.

So we know the G2 is really hard...harder than the carrier...so the tail gets "machined" from the "cutter" or the hammer in this case.

Then again...I could be completely wrong.
From watching the Arsenal/Vickers Tactical video showing the EXTREME slo-mo of the Ak in action, the hammer never touches the carrier tail UNTIL the carrier has retracted the bolt head from the breech and is heading back. The rearward speeding carrier tail is actually striking the hammer (which is rebounding after the initial strike of the pin/bolt tail) at a point an inch or so out of battery . The combined collision/impact speeds must be quite great at that point. The only way to REDUCE the deformation, aside from metallurgy, would be to retract the carrier tail against the hammer to a point (approximate with the impact point seen at the 1:49 mark in the video) just past bolt head exiting the breech and MATCH the interface angles. This would create the greatest surface area and distribute the impact forces over a greater area thereby reducing deformation.
I think I said all that right. And, perhaps everyone already knows this and I am a dunce?

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Check out the hammer action at around 1:49 in this Vickers Tactical video. Whole lot of bouncing going on.
Vickers Tactical Slo-Mo AK47

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Old 02-21-2016, 04:11 PM   #35
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I used the original Polish trigger group in my last build and it is by far the smoothest and lightest trigger of all my rifles.. AR, AK and FALs.. It's scary light.. Why can't a US company make a trigger group that is the same as the originals?
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