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Old 07-26-2016, 10:12 AM   #106
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Default Arsenal? Saiga?

Aren't the Russian made SGL's technically a Saiga?

And the Bulgarian made SLR's an Arsenal?

And if they are skyrocketing now, they will go Pyrotechnic Motherlode if/when Hillary gets into office.

HK, post some pics of your Sammies when they come in.

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Old 07-26-2016, 10:15 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by cztulsa View Post
I'd love to stumble onto an affordable SGL21 or SGL31 side folder. Hopefully I'll see some rube at a gun show one of these days that doesn't know what he has.
Careful when purchasing one of these - people have been known to produce fakes. Good thread on it on this forum.
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Old 07-26-2016, 10:58 AM   #108
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Depends on what it is. I paid $3200 including tax and NICS for my SCAR 17, and sold 5 guns to fund it (plus accessories). Well worth it, and should have done it long ago.

At this stage in my firearms hobby, I buy once cry once and believe you get what you pay for. I've thinned out my collection. I'd rather have 10 quality rifles than a safe full of cheap stuff.

Of course panic inflated prices I'm not paying.
Yeah a bit ago I paid $2850 for a black Scar 17s and got 20 mags and a FN five seven to go with it soon after. I sold my Norinco 56s to cover a good chunk of it. I loved the 56s but I have no regrets. The Scar 17s is amazing. I have seen new scar17's go for close to $5000 recently. And yeah I am really happy I got into the Scar while I could. Getting one now would be rough.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:09 AM   #109
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Wow! Just to think that some of us bought these on sale for around $500 each a few years ago. I should have bought a couple dozen more.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:43 AM   #110
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Wow! Just to think that some of us bought these on sale for around $500 each a few years ago. I should have bought a couple dozen more.
Yeah I say that about stuff all of the time. Turn your back for a moment and stuff is gone and or really expensive. I was looking at Sten parts kits this morning.......They used to be all over the place for really cheap. And not that long ago.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:19 PM   #111
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Careful when purchasing one of these - people have been known to produce fakes. Good thread on it on this forum.

What's a fake SGL21 Side Folder depends upon what you are buying it for. If you are wanting an actual factory SGL21-94 then anything else is a "fake" even if you have somebody like Chris Butler do it with all original Russian parts.

If on the other hand what you want is an authentic semi-auto AK103 it doesn't matter whether you start with a fixed stock SGL21 or a Saiga IZ-132 as opposed to an actual SGL21-94, so long as it is properly done with the proper parts.

My own rifle started out as a fixed stock SGL21-72 (NATO length plum furniture). It was professionally converted with a Russian series 100 folder with a Ted Marshall grip reinforcement plate, a JMAC Customs unrelieved pin and a Duracoat finish. It's clearly not a factory SGL21-94 as the trunnion is marked "09" and it has a stamped gas tube lever (like the actual military AK103s) as opposed to a milled lever like the SGL21-94s have. Do I sit around worrying that I don't have an original SGL21-94? Absolutely not!

Last edited by Charlemagne; 07-26-2016 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:55 PM   #112
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What's a fake SGL21 Side Folder depends upon what you are buying it for. If you are wanting an actual factory SGL21-94 then anything else is a "fake" even if you have somebody like Chris Butler do it with all original Russian parts.

If on the other hand what you want is an authentic semi-auto AK103 it doesn't matter whether you start with a fixed stock SGL21 or a Saiga IZ-132 as opposed to an actual SGL21-94, so long as it is properly done with the proper parts.

My own rifle started out as a fixed stock SGL21-72 (NATO length plum furniture). It was professional converted with a Russian series 100 folder with a Ted Marshall grip reinforcement plate, a JMAC Customs unrelieved pin and a Duracoat finish. It's clearly not a factory SGL21-94 as the trunnion is marked "09" and it has a stamped gas tube lever (like the actual military AK103s) as opposed to a milled lever like the SGL21-94s have. Do I sit around worrying that I don't have an original SGL21-94? Absolutely not!
Just the difference between a collector and a shooter. I want and own the arsenal produced one. It does not get shot, I have plenty of other ak's to shoot.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:20 PM   #113
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Wow! Just to think that some of us bought these on sale for around $500 each a few years ago. I should have bought a couple dozen more.
Gosh yes, I bought mine from K-Var back when they were blowing them out for $500. I never thought this is what would become of them...

I also happen to have an early "no-dimple" Saiga imported by EAA that I bought in 2002 for about $250. I had it converted to an AK-104 by Chris Butler at AK-USA. I still have them both, and now this is more reason to keep them.
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:10 PM   #114
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One of my great regrets in life was not buying more SLG-21s when I had a chance in 2009. As a broke college student, I could barely manage getting ahold of one. You live and you learn...
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:16 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by cyberjad View Post
Just the difference between a collector and a shooter. I want and own the arsenal produced one. It does not get shot, I have plenty of other ak's to shoot.

I agree to a point. It does depend however upon what you are collecting. Do you want an SGL21-94 as it came from Arsenal (or FIME) or do you want a closer approximation of a military AK103? My gun is a converted fixed stock gun but it is closer to a military AK103 than an SGL21-94 is. To me such a gun has at least as much collector appeal as an out of production commercial gun.


I also have some guns that are either discontinued or no longer available and don't shoot. While there is a certain cachet (as well as the opportunity to make a profit) in having such guns I would rather see them back in production so I could shoot them without worrying about their collector value
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:43 PM   #116
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Yeah a bit ago I paid $2850 for a black Scar 17s and got 20 mags and a FN five seven to go with it soon after. I sold my Norinco 56s to cover a good chunk of it. I loved the 56s but I have no regrets. The Scar 17s is amazing. I have seen new scar17's go for close to $5000 recently. And yeah I am really happy I got into the Scar while I could. Getting one now would be rough.
Nice! Me too, I sold off a bunch of guns that I wasn't using, and would rather have something better to shoot than just store stuff away like a museum. There are some on Gunbroker still, but the prices are climbing. I was into M1A's, FAL's and had an Armalite AR-10, LWRC REPR and almost bought a PTR-91, but the SCAR is great in 7.62. After shooting the SCAR, I sold off my LWRC.
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:08 PM   #117
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Keep your eyes open, the deals are out there.

I just picked up the following package for $1000 flat about two months ago. I figured it was fair and I did not try to negotiate since it was all like new with boxes....

SGL-21-66 with factory rail system, Legion marked.
870rds Wolf FMJ
(4) Circle 10 30rd mags
(1) Circle 10 40rd mag
(1) 75rd drum
RS regulate mount
Vortex strikefire
Krebs safety lever
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Old 07-26-2016, 08:11 PM   #118
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bragging



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Arsenal SGL21-94 test fire date: Jan-31-12
Purchase date: June 2012 Paid $999

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Old 07-27-2016, 07:53 PM   #119
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I love my SGL. The rifle I'd take to my grave.



I paid about $1080ish two months ago. My first AK I had was a 21-61 as well, also paid about $1000 post sandy hook. Was never expecting them to skyrocket like this.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:47 PM   #120
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Why? Nothing all that special about them,
Same reason franken-built salvage kits on US Receivers and US Barrels by small new operations out of garages are getting $1,000

People get goofy and succumb to goofy markets without proper research.

Today's AK market is preying on noobs and fools IMHO.......so many things I could cite to justify that statement.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:45 PM   #121
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K-VAR has new SGL-21's on their website for $1999. Plum furniture with Warsaw Pact length stock.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/SGL21-62.html
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:49 PM   #122
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What would have driven the price up that far with K-Var???? My perception has been that the lack of guns at retail has been the driver of the high prices.........
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Old 07-29-2016, 12:37 AM   #123
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K-VAR has new SGL-21's on their website for $1999. Plum furniture with Warsaw Pact length stock.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/SGL21-62.html
I clicked on it just to see what would happen (I am not about to actually pay two grand for a fixed stock SGL21). It said "out of stock" right afterwards. Whether this was because they only had one or had not updated their website I don't know.
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Old 07-29-2016, 03:08 AM   #124
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I clicked on it just to see what would happen (I am not about to actually pay two grand for a fixed stock SGL21). It said "out of stock" right afterwards. Whether this was because they only had one or had not updated their website I don't know.

Still shows in stock for me.

Jeesh, I have the same gun sitting NIB. I'll just keep leaving that unfired in the safe
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Old 07-29-2016, 04:15 AM   #125
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Totally agree with this. The SGL21-94 and the SLR107 are no better or worse than each other. They work perfectly and do exactly what they should.

An SLR107 and SGL21-94 are not the same in terms of quality of parts. SGL is superior.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:58 PM   #126
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Never thought I would see SGL-21's selling for $700 more than Milled Bulgarians.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:01 PM   #127
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An SLR107 and SGL21-94 are not the same in terms of quality of parts. SGL is superior.
They aren't the same- correct
In terms of quality the SGL is superior- fail, hard fail.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:02 AM   #128
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An SLR107 and SGL21-94 are not the same in terms of quality of parts. SGL is superior.

The SGL21-94 is more up to date than the SLR107FR but the Bulgarians have done a nicer job with their 7.62 side folder than the Russians have with theirs.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:18 AM   #129
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The SGL21-94 is more up to date than the SLR107FR but the Bulgarians have done a nicer job with their 7.62 side folder than the Russians have with theirs.
In what respect? I find the folding mechanism on the sgl I much preferred. Other than that they are very similar quality wise.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:46 AM   #130
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They aren't the same- correct
In terms of quality the SGL is superior- fail, hard fail.
Not sure I'm following what the fail is.

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Originally Posted by Charlemagne View Post
The SGL21-94 is more up to date than the SLR107FR but the Bulgarians have done a nicer job with their 7.62 side folder than the Russians have with theirs.
I prefer the Russian, the stock angle is more to my preference. Not sure how the Bulgarian is any better in any way, other than compatibility because its a 4.5.

Edit: I thought you were only talking about the folding stock and trunnion.

Last edited by reddot; 07-30-2016 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:47 AM   #131
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In what respect? I find the folding mechanism on the sgl I much preferred. Other than that they are very similar quality wise.
Besides the 5.5mm pin folder assembly, the SGL has the newer "small stem" AK74 style bolt instead and the later "high collar" style compensator.

The SLR has a parked under paint finish whereas the SGL is just painted. The SLR comes with a grip reinforcement plate which the SGL does not have. The SLR has a dimpled ejector instead of the plain ejector that the SGL has. Finally the SLR has a spring loaded firing pin while the SGL has a floating firing pin.
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Old 07-31-2016, 08:08 PM   #132
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One more!!

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/573446875
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Old 07-31-2016, 08:19 PM   #133
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Never thought I would see SGL-21's selling for $700 more than Milled Bulgarians.
THIS.

Arsenal has gotten completely insane on their pricing of these.

YET.....people keep buying their rifles no matter what the price.

So I don't know who to wonder about.....Arsenal for being greedy or buyers for being foolish?

And after the Rothschilds and Rockefellers and their amigos put Hillary in office next November then the sky will be the limit for Arsenal prices I guess.
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:05 PM   #134
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I guess we hope for a miracle
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Old 07-31-2016, 10:45 PM   #135
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For that price I would rather get two decent M76 rifles instead.
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Old 08-01-2016, 04:00 AM   #136
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Threads like these remind me to tell you guys I love you. An SGL-21 is still my one and only AK. I picked it up in 2014 just a few months after Sandy Hook (as the panic was starting to die down a little) for something like $650 shipped, including a drum mag, a nice sling, and several cheap mags. It was used and some of the paint was wearing off but the internals and bore were perfect and I wanted a shooter anyway.

It's weird and slightly aggravating having a "collector's rifle" as your first rifle when you see them selling for these crazy amounts. I shoot it more often than any other rifle I own and I'm planning on passing it on to my son when I die. I'd sell most of my other guns if the price was right, but sentimental attachment prevents me from doing so with my SGL. I guess everything has a price eventually... maybe I'll sell it if they ever hit legal full auto NFA pricing or I can pay off my mortgage with the sale.

That said, I still wouldn't pay anywhere near what they're going for now for a second one. I think my breaking point with them as far as purely utilitarian/how much I like shooting them value is about the $1,000 mark, which is far less than they cost new when I got mine used. At this point it'll just make more sense for me to stock up on spare polish barrels for when I eventually shoot this one out.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:00 AM   #137
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Almost $2500 with shipping. Wow.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/581795745
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:34 AM   #138
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Aren't the Russian made SGL's technically a Saiga
Well yes referred to as Saiga Sporters it was the only legal way to get them into the country

The Sporters were made at the Izhmash Plant now Kalashnikov Concern the largest arms manufacturer in Russia then the conversions done by Arsenal/FIME Group and some other places to
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:57 AM   #139
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http://www.gunbroker.com/item/569824970

Every time I look one is selling for more than the last. Can't say I ever thought I would see the day a NIB SGL21 was a 3K rifle.
Look, I may feel that the Arsenal prices have been outrageous BUT I also admit that the SGL-31 rifles are about as close as most of us will ever get to owning a REAL Russian milspec AK-74 - even if only a semiautomatic version.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:16 AM   #140
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I get asked to sell my SGL26-61 at least three times a week by friends who have seen it and want to buy it. I've never shot it. Everything it shipped with in # box. From what I was told there were very few of that model imported with the BHO added. I tell everyone the first one to offer a BTST Python LNIB gets it. Lol
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