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Old 03-11-2017, 09:29 PM   #106
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I agree, the whole thing is a cluster !@#$. At this point I can't imagine anyone wanting to bring the DDI name back.
Even if they weren't bought out, I have doubts that they will survive during this incoming gun market bubble burst.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:32 PM   #107
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Even if they weren't bought out, I have doubts that they will survive during this incoming gun market bubble burst.
You're probably right. A lot of companies in the start-up phase are going to feel a lot of pressure the next couple of years.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:35 PM   #108
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Well.....since Rob is being brought in
This is from Robs AK Operators Unions website circa 2013

http://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774...unnions-drama/

Quote:
The real question is: why AK users should give up on proven manufacturing process (forging) of critical rifle part, if that part strength was tested for last 5 decades in battles at almost every corner of the world in weather conditions from brutal winters to scorching heat?
Tends to follow what most have understood for many years now
So something that says otherwise will need considerable evidence (not because of this blog)

Either way, it would be interesting to see the evidence you have collected
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:46 PM   #109
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Well.....since Rob is being brought in
This is from Robs AK Operators Unions website circa 2013

http://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774...unnions-drama/



Tends to follow what most have understood for many years now
So something that says otherwise will need considerable evidence (not because of this blog)

Either way, it would be interesting to see the evidence you have collected
Accepted knowledge... humm, from where? Where did you come to accept this knowledge from?

It was accepted knowledge in the 17th century that the world was flat, but where did they get that knowledge?

Cite a single source outside of repeated misinformation on the internet that the Russians use forged trunions in their AKM's. Post a link to their TDP. Post something scientific and not linked to "I read it in a post on the internet".

I've already talked with Rob. He knows what I've done and how I've done it and when he comes to visit he will see it first hand. Yes, he was surprised too. Before all this I simply didn't know, just like the rest of us, and speculated.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:47 PM   #110
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Either way, it would be interesting to see the evidence you have collected
100%

Until then.......
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:53 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
Well.....since Rob is being brought in
This is from Robs AK Operators Unions website circa 2013

http://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774...unnions-drama/



Tends to follow what most have understood for many years now
So something that says otherwise will need considerable evidence (not because of this blog)

Either way, it would be interesting to see the evidence you have collected
I think that Rob was taken by surprise when he found that the Polish was using them and they said they'd been copying Russians...
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:31 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post

It was accepted knowledge in the 17th century that the world was flat, but where did they get that knowledge?

Oh, now you've done it!!!
The flat earthers are gonna crucify you.


Cite a single source outside of repeated misinformation on the internet that the Russians use forged trunions in their AKM's. Post a link to their TDP. Post something scientific and not linked to "I read it in a post on the internet".
.
So for the uninformed, the Russian and Polish trunnions (Saiga's Vepr's Circle 11 and possibly the Arsenal & Romanian ones) are cast??
Or am I just reading this incorrectly?
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:32 PM   #113
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I would think a US company would want to drop all the trunion business and focus on a milled reciever, Americans can do that we are great machinists and to my understanding most milled guns made here were successful......not only that but the market will pay a premium for a milled gun, make a type 3 clone and I think you be good even with a cost of 1100 or so dollars. You don't get rich right away but you can work on stamped stuff while selling the milled.

The main issue is that small shops with independent funding are trying to do what huge plants with government funding are doing and a full staff to qc every little thing, I mean grab an AK and really look at all the proof stamps...
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:37 PM   #114
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QFT

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Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
Economical scales of cost have to be factored in

Something that costs $200 to make in Russia, may cost $1200 to make here
Izhmash is a 200 year old weapons manufacturing plant with all tooling paid for ages ago
Exactly why China has gotten much of the US manufacturing base exported to them

The market will not support the costs to start up AK manufacturing from scratch
Costs appear to be too high, and requires the correct environment (Democrats) to
keep panic height in prices

Just my view....
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Old 03-11-2017, 10:40 PM   #115
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Americans CAN do anything...but will they? There are many things I prefer with a "buy American" mindset. But with firearms and autos, no way....he'll, even the Springfield XD's I love so much are Croat guns!!
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Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
Economical scales of cost have to be factored in

Something that costs $200 to make in Russia, may cost $1200 to make here
Izhmash is a 200 year old weapons manufacturing plant with all tooling paid for ages ago
Exactly why China has gotten much of the US manufacturing base exported to them

The market will not support the costs to start up AK manufacturing from scratch
Costs appear to be too high, and requires the correct environment (Democrats) to
keep panic height in prices

Just my view....
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Hogwash!

You can get outstanding wine from places other than France. We can grow better diamonds in a laboratory than you can find in Africa. But all that's another story.

America most certainly can make a better AK. It's not rocket science. All it takes is a modest effort by those attempting to do it to exactly replicate the Russian recipe. So far no one has attempted that.

Instead, they're all off making up their own requirements out of the thin blue air, or taking what the internet thinks it needs (forged trunions) and making it come true.

Once someone with money, manufacturing knowledge and business knowledge focuses their attention on building a solid AK, game over for the Commies. Canted sights, out of round barrels, botched welds and screwed up rivets that Ivan jacked up after a 2 day Vodka bender will be a thing of the past.

The downside? Cost. That means you'll have bottom dwelling guns like PSA feeding the "I never pay more than $500 for anything including cancer treatment" crowd and the expensive, well made rifles will sell to a much smaller audience that buy nice things like Noveske, JP Enterprises, HK, etc.

It will happen someday. Sadly, it takes things like an Obama Presidency to bring such things about. Now that gun owners feel safe for the time being, there's no need for a nicely made US AK. Once another Democrat gets in office and the import bans resume, then there will be a mass scurry to make an American AK again.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:09 PM   #116
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Ok, I got the real story from a trusted confidential source, Mel took his refund from PSA to vegas, bet it all on buttercup in the 7th, it was a long shot but paid off big, walked into rifle dynamics and the rest is history, new Sheriff in town.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:10 PM   #117
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Hogwash!


Once someone with money, manufacturing knowledge and business knowledge focuses their attention on building a solid AK, game over for the Commies. Canted sights, out of round barrels, botched welds and screwed up rivets that Ivan jacked up after a 2 day Vodka bender will be a thing of the past.
.
You are way off here.
Owned and still own many Saigas (and a few Veprs), converted even more. I have never came across Russian made rifle with any of those issues. Not saying there isn't Saigas that somehow managed to get pass qc but it's not norm and exceptionally rare.
All of that is American made AK characteristics, from home builds, smaller custom shops making a few bucks to zoo's mass production rifles.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:26 PM   #118
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You are way off here.
Owned and still own many Saigas (and a few Veprs), converted even more. I have never came across Russian made rifle with any of those issues. Not saying there isn't Saigas that somehow managed to get pass qc but it's not norm and exceptionally rare.
All of that is American made AK characteristics, from home builds, smaller custom shops making a few bucks to zoo's mass production rifles.
I have seen plenty of Saigas with canted sights and other things, like a 7,62 scrubbed off and 5,45 engraved over it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:34 PM   #119
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I'm betting that the trunnions are simply milled out of steel without forging. Which wouldn't surprise me, given that BAR and Bren LMG receivers (and milled AKs) are/were usually machined out of steel blocks that probably haven't been specially forged before hand.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:54 PM   #120
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WTH!? Seriously!?

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I have seen plenty of Saigas with canted sights and other things, like a 7,62 scrubbed off and 5,45 engraved over it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 11:55 PM   #121
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I'm betting that the trunnions are simply milled out of steel without forging. Which wouldn't surprise me, given that BAR and Bren LMG receivers (and milled AKs) are/were usually machined out of steel blocks that probably haven't been specially forged before hand.
not true. ddi posted pictures of their raw forgings still red hot from treat. I do believe they are forged. however correctly or not is another thing. unsure theres a real standard; its fail, or succeed it seems
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:00 AM   #122
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You are way off here.
Owned and still own many Saigas (and a few Veprs), converted even more. I have never came across Russian made rifle with any of those issues. Not saying there isn't Saigas that somehow managed to get pass qc but it's not norm and exceptionally rare.
All of that is American made AK characteristics, from home builds, smaller custom shops making a few bucks to zoo's mass production rifles.
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Hmmm well I own a 308 that cant be fired because the carrier hits the RSB, the bolt hold open dosent work, there is a sharp spot on the dust cover that will slice you open .
There is no way this rifle could have been head spaced with the carrier installed. If you try and force it close you have to beat it open with a mallet.
The trigger has over a measured 1/4 inch of pretravel followed by more grit.
I can't see how it wold pass any inspection.
I bought it new about 10 years ago and have never fired it . I got it cheap because the dealer just wanted it gone.
I bought it basicaly as a parts kit on a reciver to convert to a 260 rem . I think I paid $275.
Now that it's worth stupid money I may fix it and sell it.

I had a 223 Saiga that had only one lug hitting untill it fired and then flexed the reviver untill both lugs hit and had about .020" of head space if the carrier was not used.
It shot a 6" or worse group and was getting partial case seperations. The gun was dangerous in its sold condition.
No way the proper tooling was used to check if the bolt was even remotely true.
The dust cover needed to be practicaly hammer on to make it fit. And it had a nasty burr on the mag release that could draw blood.
That one came to me via a fustrating owner who just wanted it out of his life. I fixed it and sold it.

My 410 is ok but not great but has shitty muzzel threads for the choke. The hand guard retaining screw was falling out when it was unboxed.

A buddies new 7.62x39 had one trigger spring leg out of place when new and was non functional out of the box.

The Saiga is a cheaply made for export rifle that has been distorted to meet our laws.

I'll never likely handel a new russian military issue rifle but I suspect they go through a much better inspection process than shit made for dumb Americans.

Any company will have a few slip by but I doubt quality control at Saiga is any thing special.
There made as cheap as possable for export.
I'd love to know what importers pay for them .
I'd guess it's a lot less than we think.

I'm glad yours and most others are OK but many need a few tweaks when new .

Many people don't even know what a forging is or how it's differant from somthing machined from say bar stock.

I'll be very interested in how a russian trunion is made.

Nothing I have seen ever made me think there forged into shape and finished machined.
I always thought they were just machined from a block of good steel.
I base this on some unfinished trunions I bought years back.
I honestly never thought about it or cared as I'm not making one . The parts in the parts kits I built were reliable and proven . They could be cast steel for all I know..

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Old 03-12-2017, 12:05 AM   #123
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Hmmm well I own a 308 that cant be fired because the carrier hits the RSB, the bolt hold open dosent work, there is a sharp spot on the dust cover that will slice you open .
There is no way this rifle could have been head spaced with the carrier installed. If you try and force it close you have to beat it open with a mallet.
The trigger has over a measured 1/4 inch of pretravel followed by more grit.
I can't see how it wold pass any inspection.
I bought it new about 10 years ago and have never fired it . I got it cheap because the dealer just wanted it gone.
I bought it basicaly as a parts kit on a reciver to convert to a 260 rem . I think I paid $275.
Now that it's worth stupid money I may fix it and sell it.

I had a 223 Saiga that had only one lug hitting untill it fired and then flexed the reviver untill both lugs hit and had about .020" of head space if the carrier was not used.
It shot a 6" or worse group and was getting partial case seperations. The gun was dangerous in its sold condition.
No way the proper tooling was used to check if the bolt was even remotely true.
The dust cover needed to be practicaly hammer on to make it fit. And it had a nasty burr on the mag release that could draw blood.
That one came to me via a fustrating owner who just wanted it out of his life. I fixed it and sold it.

My 410 is ok but not great but has shitty muzzel threads for the choke. The hand guard retaining screw was falling out when it was unboxed.

A buddies new 7.62x39 had one trigger spring leg out of place when new and was non functional out of the box.

The Saiga is a cheaply made for export rifle that has been distorted to meet our laws.

I'll never likely handel a new russian military issue rifle but I suspect they go through a much better inspection process than shit made for dumb Americans.

Any company will have a few slip by but I doubt quality control at Saiga is any thing special.
There made as cheap as possable for export.
I'd love to know what importers pay for them .
I'd guess it's a lot less than we think.

I'm glad yours and most others are OK but many need a few tweaks when new .
Folks seem to think these Saiga's and VEPR are elite weapons from the factory. Fact is they were the cheapest of the lot and provided nothing but a basic durable foundation upon which a completed worthy rifle could be built.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:13 AM   #124
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Well said^
They were a great starting point when they were $300 or less.

I can't speak for vepr. Never had one or shot one.

I'd love a super 308 with the full length stock and in the rarer cantalever rail that copies mine.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:16 AM   #125
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I have seen plenty of Saigas with canted sights and other things, like a 7,62 scrubbed off and 5,45 engraved over it.
Oh c'mon, it never happens.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:40 AM   #126
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not true. ddi posted pictures of their raw forgings still red hot from treat. I do believe they are forged. however correctly or not is another thing. unsure theres a real standard; its fail, or succeed it seems
Not the Russian mil-spec AKs that MAC is referring to. This is also new info to him it seems, too.

Also, if making a stamped rifle is more labor intensive and just as expensive as making a milled one, why are most military AKs and commercial ones stamped when there seems to be no cost benefit?
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:06 AM   #127
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Not the Russian mil-spec AKs that MAC is referring to. This is also new info to him it seems, too.

Also, if making a stamped rifle is more labor intensive and just as expensive as making a milled one, why are most military AKs and commercial ones stamped when there seems to be no cost benefit?
the age old question of why? well, when the ak47 came out it was milled. they had problems with treat and parts not fitting and breaking. the germans helped the Russians with stamped receivers on the AK whether you like to argue that or not schmeisser was involved...

id say ease of manufacture, cheaper parts, and quicker turnaround

a rivet can be replaced, a crack cant
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:34 AM   #128
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WTH!? Seriously!?
No joke.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:04 AM   #129
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A stamped AK is lighter.
Why would a military want a heavier rifle?
It likely costs the Russians about 75 cents to make a stamped reciver in the quantity they do.
Labor rates are much less, the cost of handeling storing the materials like bars of steel needed would be greater as well as would the materials cost were about 80% is turned to scrap.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:16 AM   #130
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LOL @ SAIGA are bad....that's funny
I have 10 that function flawlessly.....and never had a bad one.
Canted, sure some but zero without issue = petty bs

Now, that does not mean bad ones don't exist....
Anyone with half a brain should be able to discern that in manufacturing there are mulligans
Regardless of manufacturer, human error comes into play. SAIGA, Cugir, DDI, Definitive Arms, etc
Before anyone tries to deny Definitive, Atlantic allegedly kept quite a few on hold back for RMA purposes

Scale of production, none could touch Izhmash who is the original AK factory
Therefore by sheer production numbers you will see more mulligans then a garage operation like Definitive
Not long ago MAC listed his preferred combloc and SAIGA was top of the list. I remember

What SAIGA did not allow for is major profit margins with vendors IMHO
They were so cheap, they were downplayed by those seeking bigger profit margins

As for the claimed forged vs ? Unknown
1 man's claim against decades and 10s of thousands of owners, vendors conventional wisdom is a steep hill to prove faulty. One could postulate the viability ofwhat you purchased being legitimate inside information VS getting hustled by a Russian with failed plans?? Let's consider Russia knows US manufacturers are trying to replicate the AK but still can't get it right

Maybe its legit, but anything is possible here. So have to wait til you post the claimed evidence
I look forward to you showing us what you paid for
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:35 AM   #131
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I used to buy Saiga's just for their receiver/barrel, after conversion everything extra got tossed (FCG, furniture etc- including rear sight).
Nothing comes close to best AK possible with that bare-bone platform. Receivers, barrels, trunnions are made exactly with the same process, using same metals as military AK.

Nothing commercially made in U.S, will ever surpass or come even close to that, no matter how hard or long they try.
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Old 03-12-2017, 08:42 AM   #132
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the age old question of why? well, when the ak47 came out it was milled. they had problems with treat and parts not fitting and breaking. the germans helped the Russians with stamped receivers on the AK whether you like to argue that or not schmeisser was involved...

id say ease of manufacture, cheaper parts, and quicker turnaround

a rivet can be replaced, a crack cant
True the type 1 was a stamped gun, they had reciever heat treat and other parts issues so they switched to the milled type 2 (and then 3) until they fixed the stamped gun issues hence the AKM. Too many type 1 receivers were lost in heat treat causing the Russians to switch due to material wasted.

Milled guns are more intensive to make they required a skilled labor force and specialty machines and tooling to produce which was expensive back in the day. Remember there was no computer Cnc back then so each step was a hand turned process one bad cut and your milled reciever was trashed so production was a lot slower. Also milled guns take way more steel to produce another cost issue when making literally millions of guns it adds up quick. A stamped gun takes less material less skilled labor less special machining process and less time to make and for the same amount of steel you can make more stamped receivers than milled.

Also don't forget the large PESENT work force present in Russia at the time the akm was made. There were not as many people educated in mathematics and machining to be making milled guns off of expensive hand mills.

Now switch to 2017, we now have FAST computer cnc machines that can crank out damn near perfect parts with the push of a button and specifically here in the US a good work force of educated machinists who can program said machines and run them compitently. A stamped gun is lighter, cheaper both in labor and material and can still be made faster and in greater numbers off of tooling due to less tooling wear (another cost) which is why governments wanted it instead of a milled gun.

Not trying to start milled vs stamped argument here don't try that I won't argue they are BOTH GREAT when done right my argument is we have good machining abilities and technology why mess with stamped here in the U S right away other than companies trying to max out profit which is understandable but I think they should do a milled gun first.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:16 PM   #133
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I would think a US company would want to drop all the trunion business and focus on a milled reciever, Americans can do that we are great machinists and to my understanding most milled guns made here were successful......not only that but the market will pay a premium for a milled gun, make a type 3 clone and I think you be good even with a cost of 1100 or so dollars. You don't get rich right away but you can work on stamped stuff while selling the milled.
Agree with your comments on milled-receiver AKs.

I note that EVEN WHEN WAFFEN WERKS WAS MAKING LEMON AK-74s ON OUT-OF-SPEC RECEIVERS THEY MADE A BATCH OF AK-74s ON MILLED RECEIVERS THAT RAN GREAT. Now I remember that Atlantic sold these for a brief period and they quickly sold out.

And I regret not buying one when they had them. Don't know how many were made but I suspect perhaps just a few dozen.

I have to think that an American-made AK on a milled receiver in 5.56 would sell well if the price were in the area of $900-$1100 or so......

Remember the SAM-5? A wonderful Bulgarian-made 5.56 AK. Try to find one for sale and see how high the price has risen on these. Most owners are keeping them hoarded away and will not give them up.
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #134
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LOL @ SAIGA are bad....that's funny
I have 10 that function flawlessly.....and never had a bad one.
Canted, sure some but zero without issue = petty bs

Now, that does not mean bad ones don't exist....
Anyone with half a brain should be able to discern that in manufacturing there are mulligans
Regardless of manufacturer, human error comes into play. SAIGA, Cugir, DDI, Definitive Arms, etc
Before anyone tries to deny Definitive, Atlantic allegedly kept quite a few on hold back for RMA purposes

Scale of production, none could touch Izhmash who is the original AK factory
Therefore by sheer production numbers you will see more mulligans then a garage operation like Definitive
Not long ago MAC listed his preferred combloc and SAIGA was top of the list. I remember

What SAIGA did not allow for is major profit margins with vendors IMHO
They were so cheap, they were downplayed by those seeking bigger profit margins

As for the claimed forged vs ? Unknown
1 man's claim against decades and 10s of thousands of owners, vendors conventional wisdom is a steep hill to prove faulty. One could postulate the viability ofwhat you purchased being legitimate inside information VS getting hustled by a Russian with failed plans?? Let's consider Russia knows US manufacturers are trying to replicate the AK but still can't get it right

Maybe its legit, but anything is possible here. So have to wait til you post the claimed evidence
I look forward to you showing us what you paid for
I think the point was that Saiga is durable. Not Saiga is bad. Saiga and VEPR have what AK enthusiasts want in the barrel and receiver. The rest of it is pretty much cheap as you can get with little detail paid to precise alignment during manufacture.

This whole argument about forged vs milled vs cast. That's new. It was widely claimed and accepted that there were zero cast parts on comblock AK's a few years back. That has been proven beyond all doubt to be false. So it boils down to the front trunnion, and BCG now. There was some evidence that Polish manufactures are "A" casting trunnions and "B" said Russians do the same.

So, I'm eager to hear what MAC is referring to. He obviously thinks it's new info and can be verified by sources that know.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:06 PM   #135
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Remember there was no computer Cnc back then so each step was a hand turned process one bad cut and your milled reciever was trashed so production was a lot slower. Also milled guns take way more steel to produce another cost issue when making literally millions of guns it adds up quick. A stamped gun takes less material less skilled labor less special machining process and less time to make and for the same amount of steel you can make more stamped receivers than milled.

Also don't forget the large PESENT work force present in Russia at the time the akm was made. There were not as many people educated in mathematics and machining to be making milled guns off of expensive hand mills.

Now switch to 2017, we now have FAST computer cnc machines that can crank out damn near perfect parts with the push of a button and specifically here in the US a good work force of educated machinists who can program said machines and run them compitently. A stamped gun is lighter, cheaper both in labor and material and can still be made faster and in greater numbers off of tooling due to less tooling wear (another cost) which is why governments wanted it instead of a milled gun.

Not trying to start milled vs stamped argument here don't try that I won't argue they are BOTH GREAT when done right my argument is we have good machining abilities and technology why mess with stamped here in the U S right away other than companies trying to max out profit which is understandable but I think they should do a milled gun first.
Slight knowedge correction.. The mill were automated back then. But they used stacks of metal cams to engage and disengage the feeders.. These mills had to be adjusted to compensate for cutter wear and wear on the cams... I think here in the states we changed from cam to punch band NC control in the early 50s.

Cnc is way faster.. Current industrial standard rapid traverse is 1000 Ipm the old cam machine was maybe 50 Ipm.. And modern carbide with aggressive cutting paths is nearly 10 to 20x faster than carbon steel or HS cutters..

So yes milled are not that hard to do.
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:32 PM   #136
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Would be cool to see more milled US rifles with stronger internals

Not the cast junk

Been debating building some milled from scratch....
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:30 PM   #137
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Would be cool to see more milled US rifles with stronger internals

Not the cast junk

Been debating building some milled from scratch....
I only buy the best. Mine are all GTG.
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:36 PM   #138
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I just see the price being high for a milled gun as going better than a high price for a stamped gun. Plus think of fudds, an American made milled reciever? A fudd would buy that over a stamped gun anyway unfortunately we enthusiast aren't the entire market, just a large portion of it
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:42 PM   #139
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Slight knowedge correction.. The mill were automated back then. But they used stacks of metal cams to engage and disengage the feeders.. These mills had to be adjusted to compensate for cutter wear and wear on the cams... I think here in the states we changed from cam to punch band NC control in the early 50s.

Cnc is way faster.. Current industrial standard rapid traverse is 1000 Ipm the old cam machine was maybe 50 Ipm.. And modern carbide with aggressive cutting paths is nearly 10 to 20x faster than carbon steel or HS cutters..

So yes milled are not that hard to do.
For sure! They were truly a great tool for their time! I was thinking of the pic I saw of the chicom factory milling a mag lip by hand when I wrote that, thanks for the correction! The cool manufacturing practices are a big part of my interest in weapons, I find it all fascinating!

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Old 03-12-2017, 02:57 PM   #140
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China is a different thing.. A lot of their older magazines show cutter paths from shapers rather than mills.

Many older SKS rifles I have seen have shaper marks on the inside rails of the receiver.. Shapers are a great way to mill slots into things, tooling is stupid cheap and easy to maintain.. They are slow but many of the better ones had stops built in and a bell that would ring to alert the operator to switch parts. So one decently skilled operator could run 10 or so shapers at a time resetting one then running over to another and so on.

This is one running at normal operating speed.



There is that video of the mantra mags being made, but some if not most of the processes appear to be slown down for the videos.. They are milling the feedlip sides with an older manual mill, but it has a power feed and they are running it on the slowest setting for the video, but cnc does not really speed that operation up since most of the time is spend locking the parts into the holders, then you start the feed.. The welders also have their coolant lines removed to allow the camera to get a better shot. And they are not using jigs to set the parts again so that you can see the action.

The one that totally baffles me, is the hot forged lug. The part does not seem to be that hard because they file readily.. So why not just mill it out of bar stock and save the first five steps? They have to mill all the sides of it anyway, why not start with a part that you can actually grip in a vise.
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