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Old 08-31-2017, 03:11 AM   #1
Skatmanfu
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Default WASR 10(2017) -- 922r compliance

I'm brand new to the AKM platform and also the brand new owner of a WASR-10(2017 production) -- via Centerfire Systems sale.

I've scoured the net, and I think that I have a general understanding of 922r compliance.

It's my understanding, and I hope that some posters here can confirm this, that the American made parts on the current production WASRs are:

Trigger Group(3 parts)
Butt Stock
Forearm/Hand Guard
Pistol Grip
Muzzle Brake
Magpul 30rd. Magazine(3 parts)

--10 total US Parts--

While I understand that some of the older production WASRs came with a welded on (US made) Gas Piston, mine has a little wiggle to it, so I believe it to be Romy.

So can anybody confirm that the above (Century US added parts)list is correct for current WASRs?

It's my understanding that the: Receiver, Chrome-Lined Barrel, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Front Trunnion (along with the Gas Piston) are all Romy, and make up a total of six foreign parts countable towards 922r compliance.

Here's what I would like to do...

I was expecting the rifle to come with the light blonde furniture, but instead it came with a dark brown stained wood instead. It's actually looks pretty nice on the rifle.

However, before I received the rifle, I went ahead and purchased a (foreign) furniture set that is even nicer IMO, and so I think that I'm still going to swap it out. Additionally, I ordered ahead of time, some steel Hungarian Surplus Mags, a Bakelite grip, Bakelite mag and a Romy bayonet.

I was also able to locate and order some US made Mag Floor Plates and Followers from KVAR and Csspecs.

Of course 922r is absolutely stupid...No questioning that. However, I still would like to maintain compliance for the sake of legality.

So...Can I swap out the furniture(Stock and Forearm/Hand guard), the Pistol Grip and use my (2 U.S. parts)converted Surplus/Bakelite Mags and still be 922r compliant?

Is my part count and math right?

Last edited by Skatmanfu; 08-31-2017 at 03:21 AM.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:19 AM   #2
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922r is for manufacturers.


( I'm hearing an echo )
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
922r is for manufacturers.


( I'm hearing an echo )
I've also read that interpretation of 922r before. Would I be considered a manufacturer if I decided to sell a non-compliant 922r rifle?
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatmanfu View Post
Would I be considered a manufacturer if I decided to sell a non-compliant 922r rifle?
Did you build it?
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:31 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
Did you build it?
Define build? There are various stages of building.

I guess I will be remodeling it.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:43 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatmanfu View Post
Define build? There are various stages of building.

I guess I will be remodeling it.
No, there are no "various stages of building".

You either

a) built the receiver in your garage or shop ( built a "firearm" for personal use ) and then assembled a parts kit into a rifle using it.

or

b) assembled a parts kit on to a 100% receiver, creating a rifle.


Anything other than that is not "building", it's "barbie dolling"

Handguns are not subject to 922r.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:51 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
No, there are no "various stages of building".

You either

a) built the receiver in your garage or shop ( built a "firearm" for personal use ) and then assembled a parts kit into a rifle using it.

or

b) assembled a parts kit on to a 100% receiver, creating a rifle.


Anything other than that is not "building", it's "barbie dolling"

Handguns are not subject to 922r.
"No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."

I read the word 'assemble' here. I also do not see any specific mention of this statute being limited to manufacturers only.

While that may/or may not be the case, that is not my purpose in starting this thread -- to debate whether or not individuals are allowed to 'assemble' non-complaint rifles or not.

I want to know if there is someone here that can confirm the U.S. made parts as the new production WASR-10s come assembled from Century.

I will be reassembling the rifle into a different configuration and want to know if my parts count is correct and compliant.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:34 AM   #8
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The problem is Century intentionally doesn't publish which US parts they install. They don't do it so that they can change them up if/when needed, and no one in the public can say anything.

For example, the forearm and stock? I have a 2017 WASR-10 here. While we all think that crappy wood is US made, its not marked. It could be something they imported from Tywan or Korea for all we know.

As to the gas piston, while it might be original Romanian, I've had plenty of Century installed US made pistons that had the right amount of play. CAI actually didn't weld them, but rather did it right by screwing and pinning.
Also have had muzzle devices from them that were supposedly US made but were not marked with 'C' or 'US'.
So how exactly does a person know for sure a part is US or foreign made? and how could they proove it one way or the other?
The C or US could have been scraped or scratched off, or never struck in the first place.
Or a person could go down to Harbor freight and get a stamp set with "U" and "S" in it and then apply those letters to any metal or wood part they wanted.

As to what 'assemble' means here, no one knows as the ATF has never clearly defined it. And it has never had to clearly define it as no one has ever even gone to trial with violating 922(r) as one of their charges.

Sometime go look at all the laws, rules, statutes, and ordnances on the books for your city, county, state, and the federal gov't. Then ask yourself, do law enforcement officers know all of these? And how many would anyone actually care to inforce.
You'll probably be amazed just how much is technically against the law, and what kinds of crazy things are on the books....some of them really are downright a laugh.
Oh and don't ever remove that tag from your matriss. It says right there on it doing so is against the law and could lead to jail time.

After doing all that....go have a nice cold beer, soothing cup of tea, a mellow smoke; whatever it is you enjoy to relax.

Then go and enjoy your new Romanian WASR-10, which you purchased with your own hard earned money and purchased 100% legally filling out a 4473 and going through a Federal NICS background check. You've done nothing wrong, and you've obtained that rifle fair & square.
Its a great AK and it will last you a lifetime.

So set it up however you feel like, grab some ammo, and go to the range.
Practice good gun safety, take your time, and most of all; have yourself a hell of a good time!


And that's all you need to know about 922(r).
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
As to the gas piston, while it might be original Romanian, I've had plenty of Century installed US made pistons that had the right amount of play. CAI actually didn't weld them, but rather did it right by screwing and pinning.
Century "doing it right" is a very recent occurrence placed against the WASR timeline. For decades, WASR pistons were welded on one side as drilling & pinning a new US piston was "too costly", I guess.

TBH, I don't think Century is actually "doing anything" vis--vis the newer WASR gas pistons but leaving them alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
Oh and don't ever remove that tag from your matriss. It says right there on it doing so is against the law and could lead to jail time.
Oh for $DEITY's sake. The law does not keep the end user from doing anything of the sort.
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Old 08-31-2017, 05:03 AM   #10
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Oh sorry, i wasn't trying to say CAI usually pinned the piston on rather than welding. I've had a ton of welded ones in over the years too. It was a statement to make a point that pinned doesn't always = original Romanian piston.
But thinking back, best I can remember the WASR-10s from 2003-2005 had pinned in place pistons. I know both my SAR-1 and SAR-2 came with US marked pistons which were pinned, and they were from 2001-2002. Also I bought a WASR right after the end of the AWB, and it had the wiggly piston.
Century then started just welding as it was faster and easier once the demand for AKs started to go up. I honestly don't know when it became common practice, but I do know my WASR-10/63UF came with a welded piston and I bought it in 2008, and same for my AES10B from 2010. So probably in the 2006-2007 timeframe?
The 2016 dated WASR10 I have here came in just a couple months ago from CAI, and like the OP's gun it has a pinned piston. Honestly, I never asked someone to look for me to see if it is marked US or not. I don't really spend time on such things as they have no relevance to me personally.

As for the matris comment, I have to believe you took my intended meaning and tone regarding that one.
I'd wager you and I are very much on the same page regarding this issue.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:50 AM   #11
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Not another 922r thread.
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:58 AM   #12
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OP:

Not here to argue 922R, but here's the answer to your question I think.

It doesnt matter how many US parts you have. The law clearly states no more than 10 import.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

Enjoy
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Not another 922r thread.
No doubt buddy. OP pls sell your rifle.
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:20 AM   #14
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If you plan to comply with 922r you should be aware and know which parts are USA vs imported.
Ignorance or ignoring said regulations are your choice as well. It depends on your personal choice and any future implications.

It is about assembly vs manufacturing. There is a difference.
The wiki interactive 922r worksheet that 64890 linked is a good tool.
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:35 AM   #15
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Lol, stupid.
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Old 08-31-2017, 09:36 AM   #16
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You can thank 4mula for finding it and sharing it with me.

Read section 2, direct from the ATF.



Here's the next page if you want to continue.

http://www.neighsayersforum.com/atfl...922replyp2.jpg
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:37 AM   #17
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I have posted that answer other 922r letters over time. Of course there are the public deniers of compliance and the tough guy "F" the ATF responses.

It is about decisions like anything in life. If you are not going to comply then best to STFU and don't make a documented statement of your intent just in case it ever comes up in your world.
For those who care there are guidelines.
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Old 08-31-2017, 10:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
I have posted that answer other 922r letters over time. Of course there are the public deniers of compliance and the tough guy "F" the ATF responses.

It is about decisions like anything in life. If you are not going to comply then best to STFU and don't make a documented statement of your intent just in case it ever comes up in your world.
For those who care there are guidelines.
+1
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:33 AM   #19
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Google 922r compliance calculator.
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Old 08-31-2017, 11:43 AM   #20
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What private gun owner in the history on the 922r thing has EVER been charged with a crime because they had one or two less American parts on their privately owned rifle? I wish people would stop making a mole out of an ant hill. If you're so paranoid about it, then sell the the damn import and buy American, or leave the damn rifle as is...

It's kind of just as stupid as the people who are worried about being arrested for ripping the tag off of their mattress...

Last edited by praxidike; 08-31-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatmanfu View Post
It's my understanding, and I hope that some posters here can confirm this, that the American made parts on the current production WASRs are:

Trigger Group(3 parts)
Butt Stock
Forearm/Hand Guard
Pistol Grip
Muzzle Brake
Magpul 30rd. Magazine(3 parts)

--10 total US Parts--
According to /u/JakesGunReviews on /r/AK47, these are the US-made parts on a late-model WASR:

- Gas piston
- Muzzle device
- Trigger
- Disconnect
- Hammer
- Pistol grip

See also:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/commen...2r_compliance/
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:37 PM   #22
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I think the only time 922r would come up is in two scenarios... The said firearm was used in a crime. Which in that case, the user probably couldn't care less about 922r. The second scenario, the said firearm was used in self defense. I have no doubt that if an AK was used to defend life and liberty, the ATF would dismantle every single piece looking for something that would classify it as an "illegal assault weapon".
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praxidike View Post
What private gun owner in the history on the 922r thing has EVER been charged with a crime because they had one or two less American parts on their privately owned rifle? I wish people would stop making a mole out of an ant hill. If you're so paranoid about it, then sell the the damn import and buy American, or leave the damn rifle as is...

It's kind of just as stupid as the people who are worried about being arrested for ripping the tag off of their mattress...
All about choices. Actually if you read the mattress tag it indicates that the "consumer may remove the tag". Devil in the details I suppose.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxxsmart View Post
I think the only time 922r would come up is in two scenarios... The said firearm was used in a crime. Which in that case, the user probably couldn't care less about 922r. The second scenario, the said firearm was used in self defense. I have no doubt that if an AK was used to defend life and liberty, the ATF would dismantle every single piece looking for something that would classify it as an "illegal assault weapon".
You are under thinking it.
Firearm confiscation and/or scrutiny or inspection is much more common.
Any domestic violence claim or call, hunting violations, firearm transport violations, illegal firearm discharge cases, threats, brandishing or firearms in prohibited places such as government facilities, schools etc.

Whether there are 922 implications is another matter but LEO involvement with or custody of the firearm is applicable in the above scenarios.

All about choices.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:56 PM   #25
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The political history behind 922(r) is actually quite interesting.

It goes back to the 1989 Bush E.O. banning the import of 'assault rifles.' Well sort of at least.
It didn't really exist in the beginning though.

It was a compromise hit upon to both satisfy US manufacturers, and to allow importers to take those dorky thumbhole stocks off their rifles before selling them.
Then of course too kit building became popular and it was extended to that too, really beginning with FAL builds.

Another similar law was the points system applied to pistols for import in 1968. This is why so many guns brought in afterwards had to have thumbrest grips, target sights, and target triggers (i.e. ribbed for her pleasure triggers).
What's unique about this system though, once the guns have gone through customs and passed the points count, it then becomes OK to remove said parts. For example, many Bulgarian Makarovs were shipped with aftermarket grips. Once here though, 100% legal to install an original military grip.

Oh and keep in mind, ATF letters are merely opinion and they've said multiple times that they are nothing more and are definitely not law.


Speaking from a legal point of view, most of these laws are so veague and poorly written, that a decent lawyor could tear them apart in a courtroom.
I am not saying to do or not do anything, but I do bet this is why none of this stuff has ever been seriously applied to a private, individual.

Now an FFL-07 manufacturer like say TGI? sure, a company like that is held to a different standard due to all the licenses it has been granted by the federal gov't.

In the end, I personally could care less what someone does or doesn't do. Its their rifle and they should do what makes them feel comfortable.
I do think it is ashame though when they don't enjoy something they legally own and paid for.
If you're having fun with your AK, then your doing it right. If you aren't, then you fucked up somewhere hehe.


And seriously, if you like legal and gov't stuff as I do, you should read about all the goings on from the late 1980s through the late 1990s. Neat stuff.
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Old 08-31-2017, 12:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
You are under thinking it.
Firearm confiscation and/or scrutiny or inspection is much more common.
Any domestic violence claim or call, hunting violations, firearm transport violations, illegal firearm discharge cases, threats, brandishing or firearms in prohibited places such as government facilities, schools etc.

Whether there are 922 implications is another matter but LEO involvement with or custody of the firearm is applicable in the above scenarios.

All about choices.
Spot on, I did kind of under think it. I was thinking along the far ends of possibility... You're absolutely correct, any LEO involvement with said firearm opens up the possibility of question.
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Old 08-31-2017, 01:40 PM   #27
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I know of 3 firearms that went to ATF Tech branch in WV. None had more than 1 or 2 US made parts.
The ATF had each for about 6 months and conducted tests and whatever else it is that they do.

They returned all 3, with direct instructions to transfer them to their original purchasers.
No mention was made of 922(r), parts count, or required changes.

Make of that what you will.

I've also spoken with 3 ATF agents about this issue in the past (2 local here in AR, one at the HQ).
What I was told was again only opinion and not a matter of law or even official policy.
I will say, i was more relaxed about 922(r) after talking with those agents than I was before.

The ATF is over worked and under funded. Those people aren't looking to make more paperwork and headaches for themselves.
Actually, the ones I've met have been down-right nice, normal folks.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:37 PM   #28
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Damn if you people are so concerned about this "compliance" buy an ar. Then you don't have to think or worry your minds over such things. Define build. Fucking stupid.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:44 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
I know of 3 firearms that went to ATF Tech branch in WV. None had more than 1 or 2 US made parts.
The ATF had each for about 6 months and conducted tests and whatever else it is that they do.

They returned all 3, with direct instructions to transfer them to their original purchasers.
No mention was made of 922(r), parts count, or required changes.

Make of that what you will.

I've also spoken with 3 ATF agents about this issue in the past (2 local here in AR, one at the HQ).
What I was told was again only opinion and not a matter of law or even official policy.
I will say, i was more relaxed about 922(r) after talking with those agents than I was before.

The ATF is over worked and under funded. Those people aren't looking to make more paperwork and headaches for themselves.
Actually, the ones I've met have been down-right nice, normal folks.

I don't think 922r specifically states a requirement that all domestic compliance parts be marked as such. The CAI RAK1 trigger group uses a "C" rather than the "U.S" that Tapco uses, so there is no consistency there. I am by far NO expert in comm bloc parts, but all the comm factory fire control groups I have seen don't really indicate anything. So, that leaves three parts right there that could be open to interpretation. Same goes for the grip.

It really comes down to personal choice, and individual willingness to follow the law. Personally, I think the risk is low, but out here in Kalifornia, I am not willing to get in a pissing match of a few small parts.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:48 PM   #30
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You are under thinking it.
And you are way overthinking it. I don't mean to parrot Misha, but the burden of proof for such a law would be exceedingly difficult for a prosecutor. And no to the other commenter, even if used in defense, it *seems* ridiculous to me that they would count the American parts in your rifle, how would they even begin to identify the American parts? Some of you are way too paranoid and suspicious but to each their own.
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:55 PM   #31
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Millions of imported rifles in this country that are owned by civilians. Can ANYONE point me to a case where an average Joe was prosecuted for have a couple to few American parts on their rifle? I'll wait....
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Old 08-31-2017, 02:57 PM   #32
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And you are way overthinking it. I don't mean to parrot Misha, but the burden of proof for such a law would be exceedingly difficult for a prosecutor. And no to the other commenter, even if used in defense, it *seems* ridiculous to me that they would count the American parts in your rifle, how would they even begin to identify the American parts? Some of you are way too paranoid and suspicious but to each their own.
Thank you.... I wish people aka non-manufacturers and importers would stop making this a fucking issue.

It's a non issue, and no one is going to dissect each and every part of the rifle and then try and trace and identify each part (even those without any identifying markings), just to charge you for not having one extra American made part. Not only that, they'd then would have to prove that you didn't get the rifle that way in the first place. This law is in place for manufacturers and not for us...

Last edited by praxidike; 08-31-2017 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Browning Hi Power View Post
And you are way overthinking it. I don't mean to parrot Misha, but the burden of proof for such a law would be exceedingly difficult for a prosecutor. And no to the other commenter, even if used in defense, it *seems* ridiculous to me that they would count the American parts in your rifle, how would they even begin to identify the American parts? Some of you are way too paranoid and suspicious but to each their own.
And I see your point as well... My paranoia comes from the ridiculous amount of regulations we have to abide by here in California. Have you seen some of the crazy devices we have to install in order to own a Ca compliant semi-auto? Maybe the ATF won't bother with 922r, but I am sure the Ca DOJ will find any way they can to confiscate, and destroy any semi-auto, even if it's something like 922r.

For me, its a non-issue. I don't mind the 922r compliant parts, so I just roll with that.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:44 PM   #34
Cornpone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micahgartman View Post
According to /u/JakesGunReviews on /r/AK47, these are the US-made parts on a late-model WASR:

- Gas piston
- Muzzle device
- Trigger
- Disconnect
- Hammer
- Pistol grip

See also:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ak47/commen...2r_compliance/
The gas piston is no longer U.S. made. It's a factory original.
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Old 08-31-2017, 04:46 PM   #35
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Century Arms has been fairly consistent in that their 922r parts on imported AKs are almost always..

- Muzzle Device
- Piston
- Grip
- FCG

If those parts are US-made, nothing else needs to be US-made.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
The problem is Century intentionally doesn't publish which US parts they install. They don't do it so that they can change them up if/when needed, and no one in the public can say anything.

For example, the forearm and stock? I have a 2017 WASR-10 here. While we all think that crappy wood is US made, its not marked. It could be something they imported from Tywan or Korea for all we know.
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Я люблю котов! У меня нет кота, но они очаровательны. Я люблю разговаривать с людьми в парке о своих домашних кошках. Кошки могут быть настолько привередливыми! Вы когда-нибудь задумывались что кошки думают? Много приветствий! Адам.
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