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Old 10-04-2017, 03:38 PM   #1
czarslayer
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Default Stovepiping every 3-5 rounds

A friend of mine has what looks to be a Romanian parts kit on a Nodak receiver, and ever few rounds it stovepipes. We have tried multiple known good mags that work well in my rifle with similar results across them all. This was the second time it had been to the range since he got it, with no issues on the first trip using a Romanian drum, a Tapco 20 rd mag, and a surplus steel (the surplus steel was one of the ones we experienced failure with on the second range trip).

What are some possible causes of this failure? I was considering putting my bolt and carrier (SA85M) in his rifle to possible rule that out since my rifle has never experienced any kind of failures, but I decided to check in with you guys first. Any ideas?
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:04 PM   #2
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My first thoughts would be that the ejector is to short or the extractor is worn. Maybe strip the bolt and check the extractor and look at the ejector of the receiver.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:28 PM   #3
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ejector shape/size
extractor good or not
gas enough or not
maybe a blem in the chamber? check brass for blemish
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:40 PM   #4
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I will get my hands on it tonight and check this stuff in person. I will report back with what I find and maybe some pictures. What am I looking for on the ejector that would indicate an improper shape/size? Just compare it to my rifle, or is there a bit of a range of passable conditions?
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:46 PM   #5
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hold the bolt/carrier back right where the ejector is in the slit on the bolt face
you want very little room or gap between them
a pretty square outer edge is nice. if it is heavily rounded or peened up then troubles
check headspace too would be nice
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:50 PM   #6
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I'm certain the answer is no, but is there a way to check headspace without a headspace gauge?
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:16 PM   #7
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https://imgur.com/gallery/a2hTC

Is this what we want to see?
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:14 PM   #8
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Are you saying that it is a failure to feed (ftf)?
But for giggles stick another recoil spring in the rifle.
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Old 10-05-2017, 01:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
Are you saying that it is a failure to feed (ftf)?
But for giggles stick another recoil spring in the rifle.
Generally speaking, a "stovepipe" is the bolt closing on an empty case that hasn't completely ejected. Picture it in your mind.

Despite PhotoBucket fucking up the entire world.......I wish some of y'all would figure out how to post actual images. It really aint that difficult. I have felt somewhat generous today and this evening and assisted in several places.
I would also venture to guess (not assuming) that posts with pics might actually see a greater amount of helpful replies. Again.....that's just a guess.

OP.....your pics are too large for direct link.
OH! And BTW......................................try some different ammo!
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Old 10-05-2017, 05:18 AM   #10
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Does the rifle have one of those thick, aftermarket recoil buffers?
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
Generally speaking, a "stovepipe" is the bolt closing on an empty case that hasn't completely ejected. Picture it in your mind.

Despite PhotoBucket fucking up the entire world.......I wish some of y'all would figure out how to post actual images. It really aint that difficult. I have felt somewhat generous today and this evening and assisted in several places.
I would also venture to guess (not assuming) that posts with pics might actually see a greater amount of helpful replies. Again.....that's just a guess.

OP.....your pics are too large for direct link.
OH! And BTW......................................try some different ammo!
The only way I can post pics from my phone is as an Imgur link, but I will fix the pics when I get to work.

We have used Wolf and RAS ammo. What would you suggest we try?
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:53 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by cztulsa View Post
Does the rifle have one of those thick, aftermarket recoil buffers?
Not that I know of, do you have a reference to what that would look like? Everything in this rifle looks stock
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czarslayer View Post
Not that I know of, do you have a reference to what that would look like? Everything in this rifle looks stock
It would be a hunk of i assume plastic or rubber near the end of your recoil assembly closest to buttstock end.

Here it is shown in red.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:38 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrog210 View Post
It would be a hunk of i assume plastic or rubber near the end of your recoil assembly closest to buttstock end.

Here it is shown in red.
No there is nothing like that on this rifle.
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:39 AM   #15
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Romy G extractor


Fixed the pictures. Is this what we want to see?
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:18 AM   #16
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this is my take and practice on the subject so i am sure some will find something to shoot full of holes....

check gap. you want this close as can be with no rubbing




a good corner is nice to have




i check head space by holding a round in the chamber with my thumb in battery




then see how much i can easily move the tail end of the bolt square to the locking lugs
you want this as tight as can be with no restriction in locking rotation
if it takes some force to rotate it may slow the action/cycling some. i have had this happen sometimes
if it wiggles more than about 2 credit card thickness than it is getting too loose

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Last edited by turbothis; 10-05-2017 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbothis View Post
this is my take and practice on the subject so i am sure some will find something to shoot full of holes....

check gap. you want this close as can be with no rubbing




a good corner is nice to have




i check head space by holding a round in the chamber with my thumb in battery




then see how much i can easily move the tail end of the bolt square to the locking lugs
you want this as tight as can be with no restriction in locking rotation
if it takes some force to rotate it may slow the action/cycling some. i have had this happen sometimes
if it wiggles more than about 2 credit card thickness than it is getting too loose

Ok, I can check this stuff later today. When checking the headspace as you suggested, what am I looking for? How do I determine pass/fail
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:12 PM   #18
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1 if you cant close all the way = F fail too tight
2 if it takes some force to rotate it all the way = C- likely too tight
3 if it wiggles less than about a credit card thickness = A good
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbothis View Post
1 if you cant close all the way = F fail too tight
2 if it takes some force to rotate it all the way = C- likely too tight
3 if it wiggles less than about a credit card thickness = A good
Finally got back to testing this, compared it to a low round count rifle. It doesnít move much diagonally or side to side, but has a fair about not up and down movement. Noticeably more than the lower round count rifle. Both turn pretty easily. Is this a matter of bolt carrier replacement, or something more?
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:07 PM   #20
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Turbothis.
Great write up and pics.
That's about how I set head space also followed by a check with the carrier that recheck other mechanical issues.

Ejector should almost touch. It should not move carrier or bolt to the side as it passes.

Great pics and info on the ejected shape.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:20 PM   #21
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Can you try your buddy's ammo in your SA85 to rule out an ammo problem?

Any chance he's limp wristing it? See below

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Old 11-15-2017, 11:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by raverill View Post
Can you try your buddy's ammo in your SA85 to rule out an ammo problem?

Any chance he's limp wristing it? See below
Three people fired both rifles with ammo from both of our cases and we all three experienced the same thing. Sampled several known good magazines as well.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:58 PM   #23
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Gas port clear?
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:17 AM   #24
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Broken or weak springs is all that comes to my mind. I mean if all the hard parts are fine
it only leaves the flexible. IDK Or gas as xlint89 said

Did you ever build out the ejector?
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:41 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
Broken or weak springs is all that comes to my mind. I mean if all the hard parts are fine
it only leaves the flexible. IDK Or gas as xlint89 said

Did you ever build out the ejector?
Gas tube is clear. There was some side to side movement of the bolt with a bullet in battery as the test above suggested I check. I don’t know what you mean about building out the ejector?

Last edited by czarslayer; 11-16-2017 at 01:01 AM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 12:55 AM   #26
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Please learn the language. What is a firing pin carrier? Find a list of the part names.

I am not a builder nor do I speak to this with any authority. Go to the builders sub forum
it is where you should have gone to start with. If you break down your rifle you will looking down see that
ejector, post #18 a good hook, if it is not right...well I imagine you would have problems with its name.

Are the rivets tight? I mean it looks as if you are showing a milled and stamped rec. in your posts.

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Old 11-16-2017, 01:02 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
Please learn the language. What is a firing pin carrier? Find a list of the part names.
Bolt. Sorry about that my brain doesn’t work sometimes

What I’m trying to describe is what turbo detailed in his third and fourth pictures.
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:20 AM   #28
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Naw it's cool. I would take to the builders and ask.
I think someone would be interested.

The receiver may be built out of spec.....
Prepare your language skills. Good luck
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Old 11-16-2017, 01:42 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by LXD55 View Post
Naw it's cool. I would take to the builders and ask.
I think someone would be interested.

The receiver may be built out of spec.....
Prepare your language skills. Good luck
Will do, thanks.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:31 AM   #30
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In my experience, which is pretty vast, if the extractor is okay, the ejector is ok, the mags and ammo is okay, then either the chamber is fucked somehow(unlikely, heard about it never seen) or itís like the other guy said. A fucked up receiver. Whatís being described, either out of battery discharge or feeding an empty casing back in, Iíve seen happen to damaged our deformed receivers. Since yours is a build and not a military factory build, iím with the guy who said out of spec receiver
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:25 AM   #31
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Looks like a HOLLOW point round to me.

Could be as simple as that.


Some AKs just dont like the hollow point bullet IMO
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Looks like a HOLLOW point round to me.

Could be as simple as that.


Some AKs just dont like the hollow point bullet IMO
Very possable.
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Old 11-21-2017, 02:37 PM   #33
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How far is it ejecting spent cases? If less than 5 ft, likely undergassed
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:15 AM   #34
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Seems the info has stopped. Too bad.
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Old 11-27-2017, 06:42 PM   #35
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How far is it ejecting spent cases? If less than 5 ft, likely undergassed
I didn't think to measure that when we were at the range. I will try to get out this weekend and test it a bit more with some of the tips from this thread in mind. I know it doesn't do me much good until I get a chance to actually check how far they are ejecting, but just so I have something to think about, what can cause an under gassed condition?
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