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Old 11-13-2017, 10:40 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
It's why I laugh when a guy with a cheap kit build insists on a chrome lined hammer forged mill spec barrel when the much che much cheaper button rifled US barrel will last for well over $2500 worth of ammo and still be more accurate.
I donít understand why you have an issue with this. CHF barrels are like $50 more than a nitride US barrel. With as much as a kit build costs with current prices, the cost is negligible.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:46 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
I no longer believe in this.
After chopping 7" off a M72 barrel it bullet tested much better.



Before and after .... stub of same barrel on the right
I believe an over heated barrel can get expanded out at the end where its at it thinnest
Barrels wear from the outside (muzzle and chamber) inwards. Chopping a barrel and recrowning can fix the muzzle end but the first few inches after the chamber will still be worn. Thatís why a lot of M44 Nagants have counter bored barrels. It can improve accuracy but will not completely restore it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:47 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Exactly. It's why I laugh when a guy with a cheap kit build insists on a chrome lined hammer forged mill spec barrel when the much che much cheaper button rifled US barrel will last for well over $2500 worth of ammo and still be more accurate.
Personally, while I understand where you're coming from, I'll opt for the better, only slightly more expensive choice. These things might not be available forever, and I want something that will last me & my possible future children as long as possible.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:49 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Bullet tests generaly show wear from cleaning rod use.
It's a poor test to begin with..
No. It isn't. How is wear from a cleaning rod as in improper cleaning not wear? Becuase if i damage the crown with a cleaning rod l can recrown the end of the barrel as opposed to what? Cutting it down to where there's still rifling as the previous poster did? How's it a poor test?
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:26 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
I donít understand why you have an issue with this. CHF barrels are like $50 more than a nitride US barrel. With as much as a kit build costs with current prices, the cost is negligible.
Its not the price, its idiots that wont stfu about some mystical powers of CHFCL.
Ohhh uhhh oyyyy CHFCL, must have CHFCL, no CHFCL no good...
Kind of along the lines of other idiots that dump $1000 on a crooked mass produced rifle that was slapped together by fucks knows who with worn out machinery, while claiming that hand fit and aligned ak is a scap of metal... like WTF?!

If you haven not noticed, backwards retard logic is popular around here, and every day it gains more followers.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:22 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
Barrels wear from the outside (muzzle and chamber) inwards. Chopping a barrel and recrowning can fix the muzzle end but the first few inches after the chamber will still be worn. Thatís why a lot of M44 Nagants have counter bored barrels. It can improve accuracy but will not completely restore it.
I was building a chopped M72 .... not trying to repair a barrel by shortening it.
I figured nothing to loose by cutting a worn old barrel and doing a re test. I was surprised it was so much better and decided to share what I found .... not looking for some kinda argument.
If you disagree good ... you win the internet for tonight
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:36 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Mr Nobody View Post
I was building a chopped M72 .... not trying to repair a barrel by shortening it.
I figured nothing to loose by cutting a worn old barrel and doing a re test. I was surprised it was so much better and decided to share what I found .... not looking for some kinda argument.
If you disagree good ... you win the internet for tonight
I neither agreed nor disagreed. Just explained why you saw an improvement in the bullet test. Not everything is an argument.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:49 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ugroza View Post
Its not the price, its idiots that wont stfu about some mystical powers of CHFCL.
Ohhh uhhh oyyyy CHFCL, must have CHFCL, no CHFCL no good...
Kind of along the lines of other idiots that dump $1000 on a crooked mass produced rifle that was slapped together by fucks knows who with worn out machinery, while claiming that hand fit and aligned ak is a scap of metal... like WTF?!

If you haven not noticed, backwards retard logic is popular around here, and every day it gains more followers.
Good grief, you sound like you bought an IO.
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Old 11-14-2017, 11:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by shajopma View Post
I think that half a barrel (keg) is 124 pints of beer so a full barrel would be 248 rounds.
Yeah, OK. But it's a Chinese barrel, so he will want to shoot it again after only an hour...
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:45 AM   #45
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Personally, while I understand where you're coming from, I'll opt for the better, only slightly more expensive choice. These things might not be available forever, and I want something that will last me & my possible future children as long as possible.
nevermind him dude. Anyone claiming that a cheap green mountain stainless steel barrel with button rifling is better and more accurate than a proper comm-block hammer forged-chrome-lined barrel is simply misinformed.

but hey, its 1bigfudd. so take it for what its worth.

extremely long, boring, mis-spelled off topic response in form of a novel in

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Old 11-15-2017, 12:36 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by voron View Post
nevermind him dude. Anyone claiming that a cheap green mountain stainless steel barrel with button rifling is better and more accurate than a proper comm-block hammer forged-chrome-lined barrel is simply misinformed.

but hey, its 1bigfudd. so take it for what its worth.

extremely long, boring, mis-spelled off topic response in form of a novel in

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Yea that statement was pure comedy. I mean, he didnt even go for a stretch and say AS accurate.....dude say MORE accurate....... Sounds like someone had to make themself feel better about the subpar barrel they chose to use
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Old 11-15-2017, 08:44 PM   #47
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No. It isn't. How is wear from a cleaning rod as in improper cleaning not wear? Becuase if i damage the crown with a cleaning rod l can recrown the end of the barrel as opposed to what? Cutting it down to where there's still rifling as the previous poster did? How's it a poor test?
Years back over on gunco I took a bunch of barrels and a bunch of various rounds . With certain combos of ammo I show a new barrel fail a so called bullet test.

That BS came about as a sales tool when Center fire Systems was selling dark bore Yugoslavians and guys would try try and use the bullet test as a sales tool.

Many of the Mosin and yugos have more wear from poor cleaning rod use.

If you have a chrome lined barrel it's pretty easy to see if the thin layer of chrome is worn off. Something that's not super common.

Barrels generaly wear from the breach end first and it's throat erosion that will kill a accuracy first.

Go buy a $10 bore scope off eBay gor a android phone and look through a few . Those cheap cameras work pretty good.

Hint a 5.5 mm will just fit in a 223 barrel.

I'm open to debate on wear in a full auto or a used hard over heated SA. I simply have not cooked a lot down to look a muzzel wear vs Breach. I do enough expensive barrel replacing shooting slow with hot over bore rounds.

Last edited by 1biggun; 11-15-2017 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by voron View Post
nevermind him dude. Anyone claiming that a cheap green mountain stainless steel barrel with button rifling is better and more accurate than a proper comm-block hammer forged-chrome-lined barrel is simply misinformed.

but hey, its 1bigfudd. so take it for what its worth.

extremely long, boring, mis-spelled off topic response in form of a novel in

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OK I'll bite. Show me one consistant sub 3/4" factory AKM with a hammer forged factory barrel.

I can show you several sub 3/4" MOA AK'S with GM barrels.

Nothing sprcial.about a GM barrel there a good deal for the money.
I care more about accuracy than just blasting at shit.
As a builder a $75 barrel over 10,000 rounds dosent mean shit.

A hammer forged barrel is the bottom of the barrel accuracy wise and is generaly the most non concentric less straight option.
There are decent hammer forged barrels there not likely find on a AK.

The chrome lining is what adds life. It also further degrades accuracy. Chrome can't be as consistsnt.

If your planning on pumping out $5000 rounds of ammo in a AK in a short time buy a chrome lined barrel.

Not sure why you brought up stainless? ??
GM.barrels in stainless are not to bad I know of several 223 bolt guns running barrels turned off a GM blank that can do right at 1/2"
I have a AR with a heavy gunsmith blank based stainless barrel and it damn good for the $80 I paid for it.

It's funny before the barrel ban some guys wanted high quality US barrel options for there AK.
After the ban guys think unavailable equals high quality.
There are still no high quality US barrels avaliable.
Most US AK barrels start life as a $25 blank and the quality and accuracy affect it.
Most AK guys just want cheap for blasting at shit.

Not a big AR fan but at least they have high end barrels avaliable.

If you really think factory hammer forged AK barrel is more accurate than a Stainless GM barrel pick a nice day this spring and bring money I'll be happy to prove you wrong.

Actually stainless offers some wear advantages over normal steel especially against throat erosion. There also better for corrosive ammo and if you neglect your rifle. I have done a few stainless AK barrels.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:12 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Years back over on gunco I took a bunch of barrels and a bunch of various rounds . With certain combos of ammo I show a new barrel fail a so called bullet test.

That BS came about as a sales tool when Center fire Systems was selling dark bore Yugoslavians and guys would try try and use the bullet test as a sales tool.

Many of the Mosin and yugos have more wear from poor cleaning rod use.

If you have a chrome lined barrel it's pretty easy to see if the thin layer of chrome is worn off. Something that's not super common.

Barrels generaly wear from the breach end first and it's throat erosion that will kill a accuracy first.

Go buy a $10 bore scope off eBay gor a android phone and look through a few . Those cheap cameras work pretty good.

Hint a 5.5 mm will just fit in a 223 barrel.

I'm open to debate on wear in a full auto or a used hard over heated SS. I simply have not cooked a lot down to look a muzzel wear vs Breach. I do enough expensive barrel replacing shooting slow with hot over bore rounds.
You know what's funny?

I did some tests on barrels too, but I forgot to provide actual documented scientific evidence. I mean there she was just a-walkin' down the street, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"Snappin' her fingers and shufflin' her feet, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
She looked good (looked good), she looked fine (looked fine)
She looked good, she looked fine and I nearly lost my mind

Before I knew it she was walkin' next to me, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Holdin' my hand just as natural as can be, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
We walked on (walked on) to my door (my door)
We walked on to my door, then we kissed a little more

Whoa-oh, I knew we was falling in love
Yes I did, and so I told her all the things I'd been dreamin' of

Now we're together nearly every single day, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
A-we're so happy and that's how we're gonna stay, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Well, I'm hers (I'm hers), she's mine (she's mine)
I'm hers, she's mine, wedding bells are gonna chime

Whoa-oh, I knew we was falling in love
Yes I did, and so I told her all the things I'd been dreamin' of

Now we're together nearly every single day, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
A-we're so happy and that's how we're gonna stay, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Well, I'm hers (I'm hers), she's mine (she's mine)
I'm hers, she's mine, wedding bells are gonna chime

Whoa-oh-oh-oh, oh yeah
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do, we'll sing it
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do, oh yeah, oh, oh yeah
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:25 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
Barrels wear from the outside (muzzle and chamber) inwards. Chopping a barrel and recrowning can fix the muzzle end but the first few inches after the chamber will still be worn. Thatís why a lot of M44 Nagants have counter bored barrels. It can improve accuracy but will not completely restore it.
How many Mosin 44's do you think have muzzel wear from shooting ???
99% of that is from improper cleaning rod use.
It would likely take 40,000 rounds to do that to the bore in the muzzel area and by then the breach and rest would be cooked.

Yes a counter bore can help.
Generally if they have been cleaned that much or shot that much they have seen a lot of rounds and the entire barrel has wear.
Great little guns. I have 44,s I restored back from barreled actions I got for $10 each years ago. A gunco guy gave me three mint stocks so I bought bolts and parts a put them back.

Ever notice a target shooter will set a barrel back and rechamber ?
Yea you won't see them counter bore or cut a barrel at the muzzel because it's the throat erosion that is the first place to show wear.

I counter bored a 8mm Mauser years ago and surprisingly it shot very well after. It had rust and pitting not wear.
I have seen more pitting and rust in the muzzel areas of surpluss rifles than actual wear. Likely because that's were moisture first enters.

On a certain US nitrided AK barrel that was litteray shot until it was orange for 1000 round straight that i have in my possesion the middle and back is completely destroyed it's beyond belief, yet it still can hit a paper plate at 50 yards. (Most of the time LOL) and the rifle is functional.
Wish I could post up a picture.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:29 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Idratherbapickle View Post
You know what's funny?

I did some tests on barrels too, but I forgot to provide actual documented scientific evidence. I mean there she was just a-walkin' down the street, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"Snappin' her fingers and shufflin' her feet, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
She looked good (looked good), she looked fine (looked fine)
She looked good, she looked fine and I nearly lost my mind

Before I knew it she was walkin' next to me, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Holdin' my hand just as natural as can be, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
We walked on (walked on) to my door (my door)
We walked on to my door, then we kissed a little more

Whoa-oh, I knew we was falling in love
Yes I did, and so I told her all the things I'd been dreamin' of

Now we're together nearly every single day, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
A-we're so happy and that's how we're gonna stay, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Well, I'm hers (I'm hers), she's mine (she's mine)
I'm hers, she's mine, wedding bells are gonna chime

Whoa-oh, I knew we was falling in love
Yes I did, and so I told her all the things I'd been dreamin' of

Now we're together nearly every single day, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
A-we're so happy and that's how we're gonna stay, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Well, I'm hers (I'm hers), she's mine (she's mine)
I'm hers, she's mine, wedding bells are gonna chime

Whoa-oh-oh-oh, oh yeah
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do, we'll sing it
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do, oh yeah, oh, oh yeah
Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do
You didn't do shit. Want proof the thread is likely still there.
Let me guess you own a WASR and your a big time operator who trains .

Great song though do you sing that in clubs were guys were leather chaps? ?

OP asked about round counts and barrel wear you want to post songs??
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:40 PM   #52
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http://www.gunco.net/forums/43-ak-bi...et-test-2.html

Read post 12 study the pictures.
Maybe learn something.
New barrels failing a so called bullet test you learned about on the internet and worn ones passing.

Now sing like a fairy some more
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:54 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
You didn't do shit. Want proof the thread is likely still there.
Let me guess you own a WASR and your a big time operator who trains .

Great song though do you sing that in clubs were guys were leather chaps? ?

OP asked about round counts and barrel wear you want to post songs??
I do not own a WASR but I wouldn't have a problem buying one for the right price. I do have a Vepr though so at least I got that right. I'm not an operator, Ive only trained in the military, never outside it. If I go shoot it's just regular old fashion fucking off. I do sing that song in clubs with dudes though and we have a good time. What's wrong with having a good time? However, I don't wear chaps. I wear regular clothes. The whole chaps thing is so Pee-Wee Herman 1986.

Do you really think I care about your barrel testing? Oh man I'm sorry, didnt mean to give you that impression. Lets us sing another song shall we?

You don't remember me, but I remember you
'twas not so long ago, you broke my heart in two
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hand of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

Love is not a gadget, love is not a toy
When you find the one you love, she'll fill your heart with joy

If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

Yoooooouuuuuuuuu

Last edited by Idratherbapickle; 11-15-2017 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 09:55 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
How many Mosin 44's do you think have muzzel wear from shooting ???

99% of that is from improper cleaning rod use.

It would likely take 40,000 rounds to do that to the bore in the muzzel area and by then the breach and rest would be cooked.
A lot.

Agree to disagree. Iím sure there is some but there is no way to be certain.

Iíd love to see where you got that number from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Ever notice a target shooter will set a barrel back and rechamber ?
Yea you won't see them counter bore or cut a barrel at the muzzel because it's the throat erosion that is the first place to show wear.
Every target shooter that Iíve seen replaces the barrel at this point. Even if they were to go through the trouble of rechambering, why would they not give the muzzle end some new life as well? A barrel with a worn throat can still shoot reletively well but if the muzzle and crown are past their prime it will noticeably degrade the accuracy.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:13 PM   #55
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A lot.

Agree to disagree. I’m sure there is some but there is no way to be certain.

I’d love to see where you got that number from.



Every target shooter that I’ve seen replaces the barrel at this point. Even if they were to go through the trouble of rechambering, why would they not give the muzzle end some new life as well? A barrel with a worn throat can still shoot reletively well but if the muzzle and crown are past their prime it will noticeably degrade the accuracy.
The number is a estimate.
I have no idea how many 7.62x54r rounds it would take to wear a bore smooth . I'd say a lot.
My shoulder hurts just thinking about it.
I have a few other Mosin that have lots of wear at the muzzel end and it's not even it's on one side . To me it's clearly from a cleaning rod. The chamber end looks good on most of them.

I know a few 6mm PPC guys who will set a barrel back slightly to get to the end of a season. The never touch the muzzel except maybe to clean up the crown.
I have bought a few of those take offs . After taking a few inches off I can generaly get a 1/2" moa barrel for a bolt gun for varmint cheap.

Most BR guys don't want to remove any barrel than needed they spend hours and hours getting the right load at the right node and don't want to change harmonics. They will take take a few threads worth to maybe less than a inch and run the same reamer originaly used in to rechamber.

I think with target shooters however the throat erosion is increased from running hot loads. Something a Mosin or any AK dosent have a issue with.

This conversation has me wanting to maybe run a plug guage in a few barrels on a Mosin or even a yugo AK and see how much actual barrel wear is on each end.

Last edited by 1biggun; 11-15-2017 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:16 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Idratherbapickle View Post
I do not own a WASR but I wouldn't have a problem buying one for the right price. I do have a Vepr though so at least I got that right. I'm not an operator, Ive only trained in the military, never outside it. If I go shoot it's just regular old fashion fucking off. I do sing that song in clubs with dudes though and we have a good time. What's wrong with having a good time? However, I don't wear chaps. I wear regular clothes. The whole chaps thing is so Pee-Wee Herman 1986.

Do you really think I care about your barrel testing? Oh man I'm sorry, didnt mean to give you that impression. Lets us sing another song shall we?

You don't remember me, but I remember you
'twas not so long ago, you broke my heart in two
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hand of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

Love is not a gadget, love is not a toy
When you find the one you love, she'll fill your heart with joy

If we could start anew, I wouldn't hesitate
I'd gladly take you back, and tempt the hands of fate
Tears on my pillow, pain in my heart, caused by you

Yoooooouuuuuuuuu
First : Thanks for serving. I mean truly thanks.

Second: the song did make me smile.

Third : the stuff I did in 09 or when ever does show how a bullet test can be misleading. I actually put a bit of work into it.

Sing away LOL.
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Old 11-15-2017, 10:44 PM   #57
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First : Thanks for serving. I mean truly thanks.

Second: the song did make me smile.

Third : the stuff I did in 09 or when ever does show how a bullet test can be misleading. I actually put a bit of work into it.

Sing away LOL.
I believe you man I was just fucking off passing the time. It's pretty boring over here, pretty boring indeed. I guess I could go run and work out but then I'll wake up feeling like a truck hit me.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:14 PM   #58
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Wait until you get older then it feels like that all the time.

I wish I had time to wear a barrel out and the ammo or money to buy it.
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