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Old 11-16-2017, 02:58 PM   #1
BarnOwlLover
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Default Bigger game changer for AKs?

A true modernized AK developed from the ground up like the AK-Alfa?

Or a quick change barrel system for AKs like what the RPK-16 has that could pave the way to caliber conversions?
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Old 11-16-2017, 03:12 PM   #2
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A truly modernized AK makes as much sense to me as a modernized Mosin. To a certain extent, the AK is what it is. If you want something with certain modern features youíre probably better off getting something that is designed from the ground up with them.

The AK alpha is nothing more than a stamped gun in a plastic chassis.
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Old 11-16-2017, 05:05 PM   #3
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I agree that the AK can and should be modernized so far. Personally, I think the the Galil Ace series is probably one of the better examples of modernizing the AK system. Thats not saying that the Galil Ace is the be all end all of AK modernization, just that it is (in my opinion) a good representation of modernizing a battle proven design, and still retain the “spirt” of the original design.


As I wrote my response, I was thinking how an interchangeable barrel design could be integrated into the AK, and it just doesn’t seem feasible within the AK design.

Last edited by Maxxsmart; 11-16-2017 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:05 PM   #4
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If I could figure out how to post pics from an iPad I'd show you what I've been working on. Built an AK from scratch using bar stock steel, and aluminium... Actually the only AK parts I used was the carrier,bolt,and front trunnion. It's looking more and more like a Bren 805.
Basically just have to finish the buttstock and turn a barrel,oh and the charging handle
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:53 PM   #5
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There was a company displaying a quick interchangeable barrel AK at shot show a few years back.
They never seemed to hit the market however.

I'm working on a pair of AK'S that will have interchangeable barrels but it will require tools like to change a Savage barrel.
So it will take 10 or 15 minutes. But it will be multiple calibur.

I can do one with in erupted threads but it won't be as good accuracy wise.

A removable trunion can be done as well. And then a barrel assemble can be installed. About like a AR barrel and it's extension.

The AK could use a more modern optic mount.
I like the set up I designed years back that is nothing more than a rail section on the RSB.

A trunion could likely be designed to house the RSB AND optic mount all in one part and save some weight.

The main draw back the AK gives to other barrel rifles is weight and accuracy and some ergonomics.
A lot of that could be modernized and keep the same basic bolt carrier and trunion type set up.

The AK could benifit from closer tolerance parts so bolts can interchange as well as other parts.

Most of what you do to the basic design will have a draw back in some way.

As a semi auto it can be made better suited for markets were FA is never going to happen.
A better trigger for example on a rifle that won't be full auto would be one IMO. IT'S easily done with after market parts.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker83 View Post
If I could figure out how to post pics from an iPad I'd show you what I've been working on. Built an AK from scratch using bar stock steel, and aluminium... Actually the only AK parts I used was the carrier,bolt,and front trunnion. It's looking more and more like a Bren 805.
Basically just have to finish the buttstock and turn a barrel,oh and the charging handle

I have seen pictures and it's going to be a really cool rifle.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:04 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
There was a company displaying a quick interchangeable barrel AK at shot show a few years back.
They never seemed to hit the market however.

I'm working on a pair of AK'S that will have interchangeable barrels but it will require tools like to change a Savage barrel.
So it will take 10 or 15 minutes. But it will be multiple calibur.

I can do one with in erupted threads but it won't be as good accuracy wise.

A removable trunion can be done as well. And then a barrel assemble can be installed. About like a AR barrel and it's extension.

The AK could use a more modern optic mount.
I like the set up I designed years back that is nothing more than a rail section on the RSB.

A trunion could likely be designed to house the RSB AND optic mount all in one part and save some weight.

The main draw back the AK gives to other barrel rifles is weight and accuracy and some ergonomics.
A lot of that could be modernized and keep the same basic bolt carrier and trunion type set up.

The AK could benifit from closer tolerance parts so bolts can interchange as well as other parts.

Most of what you do to the basic design will have a draw back in some way.

As a semi auto it can be made better suited for markets were FA is never going to happen.
A better trigger for example on a rifle that won't be full auto would be one IMO. IT'S easily done with after market parts.
Nitriding has definitely helped the AK in the accuracy department, and I'd say that the AK holds up pretty well ergonomically compared to many of my other 'modern' rifles (AR, X95) when in 'cold weather mode' and using thicker gloves.

But if you're not in very cold conditions, you're unlikely to experience any increased ergonomics agreed..
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:23 PM   #8
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefi...el-system/amp/

I forgot molots quick change set up.
It has a snout like a AR upper the barrel slides in and a barrel nut sort of like a AR.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:32 PM   #9
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http://www.defensereview.com/us-palm...cial-operatio/

US palm had a take down model on display years back at the shot show.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/www.thefi...el-system/amp/

I forgot molots quick change set up.
It has a snout like a AR upper the barrel slides in and a barrel nut sort of like a AR.
That would be so awesome to have.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:48 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Razvedka View Post
Nitriding has definitely helped the AK in the accuracy department, and I'd say that the AK holds up pretty well ergonomically compared to many of my other 'modern' rifles (AR, X95) when in 'cold weather mode' and using thicker gloves.

But if you're not in very cold conditions, you're unlikely to experience any increased ergonomics agreed..
Nitriding extends barrel life but it does nothing or little to help accuracy. It is a more accurate option than chrome if done on a good barrel however.
I'm considering it for a 22-250 I'm building.

I find the selector / safety less than ideal.
Yet it does close up the action. Many people think the sights could be better especially for a SA that is aimed more than pointed as a full auto.

For what it was designed for its hard to beat as is.
For us who use it as a SA and by a largr majorty for recreational shooting it could be a changed up a bit.

Not a lot of military uses for a multi cal rifle unless they enticipate ammo supply issues. Is a soldier going to carry a second barrel assembly??

The AR is cool that you can change a upper but in reality I generaly just add a Lower that's only about $100 more or do to just have it dedicated to that upper. When prices were up it was a bigger deal.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:51 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Razvedka View Post
That would be so awesome to have.

Yea I could likely do a snout like that on my trunion that's threaded 1 1/16"-16 and slide in a 19mm or so barrel and use a nut like that.

I think it was AZ honkey that did a blow back AK with a barrel nut like that about 15 years ago . Used a UZI muzzel nut as I recall.
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Old 11-16-2017, 07:59 PM   #13
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...7&d=1445387061

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...8&d=1445387068
This were I'm at with a pair of threaded trunions and about 20 barrels.

Unless the optics stay with the barrel a sight in will be needed every barrel swap.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:03 PM   #14
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A caliber convertable AK makes about as much sense as oh...say...a caliber convertable STG.44.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:11 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Nitriding extends barrel life but it does nothing or little to help accuracy. It is a more accurate option than chrome if done on a good barrel however.
I'm considering it for a 22-250 I'm building.

I find the selector / safety less than ideal.
Yet it does close up the action. Many people think the sights could be better especially for a SA that is aimed more than pointed as a full auto.

For what it was designed for its hard to beat as is.
For us who use it as a SA and by a largr majorty for recreational shooting it could be a changed up a bit.

Not a lot of military uses for a multi cal rifle unless they enticipate ammo supply issues. Is a soldier going to carry a second barrel assembly??

The AR is cool that you can change a upper but in reality I generaly just add a Lower that's only about $100 more or do to just have it dedicated to that upper. When prices were up it was a bigger deal.
Put differently, chrome is bad for accuracy. It typically decreases the accuracy of a properly rifled barrel vs nitride, which just hardens the existing metal. Although I have read that nitriding does lead to slight velocity increases.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:21 PM   #16
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The RPK-16 does have a quick change barrel. But this video is all I know about how it works:



This is done to go from a 21 inch barrel to a 14 inch barrel. But I can see how such a system can lend itself to caliber conversions. Serbians are doing something along those lines with a new Zastava AK in 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39. But that and the RPK-16 are based on the RPK receiver with the bulged trunnion. I don't know if that's what makes the QCB feasible or if it can be done with a normal trunnion.

We have AR-15s that have caliber and barrel length conversions with QCBs.

As far as modernizing the AK, the AK-12 and RPK-16 along with the Galil Ace are modernized AKs that still look like AKs. I'm not sure if we can really do a ton better as of right now.
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Old 11-16-2017, 11:26 PM   #17
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NYET! AK is fine.






Haven't seen anyone else say it yet.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:25 AM   #18
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If something is going to be changed on our beloved AK's it should be a much better mag changing system. Once you do mag swaps on an AR the light will come on for you.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:46 AM   #19
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If something is going to be changed on our beloved AK's it should be a much better mag changing system. Once you do mag swaps on an AR the light will come on for you.
The one thing I would change is improved sights.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:55 AM   #20
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The one thing I would change is improved sights.
What's wrong with them?

They work fine for me.
Practice like a moFo with the iron sites.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:34 AM   #21
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What's wrong with them?

They work fine for me.
Practice like a moFo with the iron sites.
My eyes suck and arenít getting better with age. A nice peep setup would be sweet. Wish Galils werenít so damned expensive.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:46 AM   #22
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Modernized AK's already exist. We just don't see most of them in the states. They have undergone as much change as the AR15 has over the years.

I've thought in my head this stuff would be killer.

Folding stock
Milled receiver
A barrel/receiver design that uses a barrel nut instead of the traditional press fit and pin.
A barrel nut design would also make it easier to free float barrel
Nitride everything then paint/cerakote over where you want.
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:14 AM   #23
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Basically you're talking about the AK-12/RPK-16 with the exception of the barrel nut (RPK-16 still has a quick change barrel) and they use AK-100/-74M stamped receivers.

Or the Galil Ace without the free floated handguards and barrel nut.

As far as it looking like an AK, I think that all the modernization that can be done has just about been done aside from changing sights and gas blocks (which has happened with the Ace and AK-12 family).

A true modernized AK might end up looking like a modernized FN FNC or SiG 550, sort of like an AK action in a AR-like shell.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:04 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Razvedka View Post
Put differently, chrome is bad for accuracy. It typically decreases the accuracy of a properly rifled barrel vs nitride, which just hardens the existing metal. Although I have read that nitriding does lead to slight velocity increases.

I have read the same on velocity changes by target shooters.
I'd also expect a barrel harmonics change. After all the hardness of the bore is differant.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:18 PM   #25
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A caliber convertable AK makes about as much sense as oh...say...a caliber convertable STG.44.
Seen much 7.92x33 ammo lately??
If you had a SA STG 44 in the us a calibur conversion would make lots of sense if you want to shoot it at any thing much.

For military use a a calibur conversion dosent make a lot of sense really .

The main compitition to the AK is the AR that out sells it here by about a 1000 to 1 in part becuase it can be switched around.

Im.doing a multicalibure build becuase kits went from $60 to $600 and I can't build a new rifle for every wild cat or caliber I want to try.

One of my rifles will have a standard mag well . It will be my son's eventualy . One build will be a pistol a rifle and be in at least 223 , 7.63x39 and my 44 BGM wild cat . So it will cover all bases for him.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
My eyes suck and arenít getting better with age. A nice peep setup would be sweet. Wish Galils werenít so damned expensive.
VG reason why you don't like the irons.
Lucky for you there's Lot's of red dot options available on the market.
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Old 11-17-2017, 01:19 PM   #27
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Am I the only one that thinks that a "modernized" Kalash looks weird?
I understand the aspect of ergonomics and etc.. but it simply doesn't look right.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:37 PM   #28
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IMO, if they can do it to ARs (which AR-15s are heavily based basically on World War II technology aside from being made mostly out of aluminum), they can do it with AKs, whose mechanical origins are at least as old.
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Razvedka View Post
Put differently, chrome is bad for accuracy.
Id put my Bulgy CHF, chrome lined, made based on Steyr process barreled SLR-95 up against any nitrided US barrel anytime for an accuracy showdown
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Old 11-17-2017, 02:57 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
IMO, if they can do it to ARs (which AR-15s are heavily based basically on World War II technology aside from being made mostly out of aluminum), they can do it with AKs, whose mechanical origins are at least as old.
The AK47 design is not ideal for adding aftermarket items. The railed scope mounts are kinda bulky and could get caught up on things.
The AR/M4 design on the other hand is ideal for add on's.
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Old 11-17-2017, 03:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarnOwlLover View Post
IMO, if they can do it to ARs (which AR-15s are heavily based basically on World War II technology aside from being made mostly out of aluminum), they can do it with AKs, whose mechanical origins are at least as old.
The AR adaptability has everything to do with the fact that its design has a removable upper receiver, and a threaded barrel assembly that gives potential for a solid platform across the top of the weapon. The biggest downfall to rail system on an AK is the fact that the majority require bolting the rail system to the barrel. It has been said that these clamping mechanisms to open up the accuracy of the Gun.


I still stand by my statement that the Galil Ace is probably the most functionally modernized AK variant.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:23 PM   #32
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Why not do as KG are doing and use hinged and pinned dust covers? That's what they're doing with the newer rifles (AK-12 family) and the upgrade kits to take most of the slack out of the dust covers.
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Old 11-17-2017, 05:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishaco View Post
A caliber convertable AK makes about as much sense as oh...say...a caliber convertable STG.44.
I agree !
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:59 PM   #34
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I agree !
So do you think with 9x39 susposedly coming that guys would not to be able to simply convert to a surpressor set up with avaliable ammo cheap??

A STG 44 is a very bird and nobody's going to likely monkey with one unless they want to shoot it a lot.

The AK however is one of one hundred million . Guys think there something special but in reality it's the most common rifle in the world. Even the Russians who designed it felt the 7.62x39 needed a calibur change and came out with several. 9mm, 9mmx39, 5.45,
7.62x55r . So apparently they felt a need for differant calibers.

I think a lot of guys would like a 9x39 - 7.62◊39 combo set up.


As far as things looking funny the AK already looks funny. It's just were used to looking at it.

If the HPA passes and 9x39 comes in see how many people wish they could swap a barrel out easy.
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Old 11-18-2017, 10:00 AM   #35
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To me, it just like buying slug barrels or different chokes for shotguns. Different barrels or chokes mean that you don't have to buy a new gun just to go back and forth between slugs and shot.

Same deal with caliber conversions. It costs less to get a new barrel, bolt head (if needed) and magazine than it does a whole new rifle. And even if money isn't an issue, space might be and the conversion parts will take up less room than a rifle in every caliber you want.
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