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Old 11-22-2017, 01:18 AM   #36
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I can put a mag of wolf out of my saiga on a pie plate at 200 yards. Is that acceptable accuracy?
I dont have any freinds with 7.62 akm rifles to compare.
Yes that is acceptable, if can you hit that size target with your weak hand... and your opposite eye... on the move... in a hurricane... while taking incoming fire

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Old 11-22-2017, 01:26 AM   #37
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You are average!!
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:56 AM   #38
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If you hit what you're aiming at then accuracy is fine.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:13 AM   #39
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What's a "seal wolf" anyway?
Duh.

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Old 11-22-2017, 08:23 AM   #40
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Using 123 gr laquer and seal wolf
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I fire a 3 round group bullet holes are touching. Fire another 3, same deal but on a diffrent part of the plate. They dont want to stay together
I'm sorry, but am I to believe that with low quality mil-spec ammo you're getting groups that rival that of $4,000 custom bolt guns using hand loads? Or is this at 10yds or something?

Nothing against you, but I can't accept claims that are this outrageous without evidence.
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #41
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I get that a lot of you guys are capable of making really good long distance shots which is great. But, the OP states he is getting 3 shot groups that are touching each other at a range of 200 yards, I don't believe the AK and Wolf ammo are capable of this.
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:16 PM   #42
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Three shot groups touching at 200 yards is phenomenal! That would be a match grade AK... Personally, as long as an AK can drop them inside a 16-18 inch square at 300 yards, then said AK is doing what it's expected to do in my book. Sure, it's always fun to see just how tight you can keep your groups regardless of gun, but I have a bolt gun for my long range precision addiction.


OP... If you are getting touching three hole groups, consider yourself lucky, and enjoy your one of kind AK!
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Old 11-22-2017, 01:40 PM   #43
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Old 11-22-2017, 03:28 PM   #44
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:35 PM   #45
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I tried to upload a pic but the it said the file was to large. I lack a computer i just have my smart phone. An old one
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Old 11-22-2017, 04:37 PM   #46
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Not every group was that good just 5
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:01 PM   #47
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Wolf ammo three holes touching in a row at 200 yards is slim and none even in a very accurate rifle.

I day this having had some custom barrel AL s that could hold under 3/4" MOA consistantly and hit 1/2" on occasion 5 shots at 100 yards with very good hand loads and development. Same rifle with any wolf ammo including 154 grain was never much better than 1.25" .

I have pulled down Wolf 7.62x39 and have seen over 1 grain charge weight differances in a mating box of 20 rounds. Bullet weights varying by over 4 grains. The stuff is just not consistant.
The cases reloaded can produce sub 1" in a good rifle.
I used to do that to get expendable hunting brass.

You need to seperate shooting ability from rifle inhearited accuracy. Find what the rifle is capable of in the best conditions possable . After that any worse is on the shooter.

Knowing the rifle is not the problem is a step in becoming a better shot.

That said if you can hit a paper plate with no magnification at 200 with wolf ammo in a AK your doing better than a lot of guys.
The trigger on mist AK s is lacking for doing much precision work.

I have seen a good trigger reduce a shooters groups by over 50%.
That's not just AKs.
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Old 11-22-2017, 08:05 PM   #48
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What's a "seal wolf" anyway?
It's a wolf with SCUBA gear.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:36 PM   #49
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I tried to upload a pic but the it said the file was to large. I lack a computer i just have my smart phone. An old one
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Not every group was that good just 5
of course any pic posted will be said no way it was at 200 yds or whatever

wolf or any 7.62x39 ammo really just isn't that consistent in order to get gnat's ass sub-moa groups at 200 yds
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:56 PM   #50
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Yeah coldfilter you cannot in no way win this discussion. For YOU TO SHOOT groups touching at that distance takes time. It takes someone that can do it, a rifle that can do it and a cartridge that can do it. I just can't believe it.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:33 AM   #51
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I tried to upload a pic but the it said the file was to large. I lack a computer i just have my smart phone. An old one
Upload to moderator Nalioth's image host, "imgdump" and resize when copying file name for "forum posting "

I did it. With a cell phone. Now you do it.
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Old 11-23-2017, 10:30 AM   #52
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4mula: were the 300 yard hits done with iron sights? That would be good even with a red dot.

I'm happy to do that with an Enfield #4s aperture sights, and sometimes have luck with an SKS' iron sights.
Nothing more than I/S my friend.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:56 PM   #53
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What is the possibility of an AK hunter being sub moa. I believe it's a type1 milled receiver and the standard 386 20" and trigger slap like no tomorrow . Oh. By the way..HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:35 PM   #54
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What is the possibility of an AK hunter being sub moa. I believe it's a type1 milled receiver and the standard 386 20" and trigger slap like no tomorrow . Oh. By the way..HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
With good ammo many AK'S can be 1" MOA with a factory barrel.
I have had a few shoot the old PMC soft points right at 1".

The factory chamber is pretty loose . They can have over .010" next clearance were a target type rifle might br a little as .001".
The more tapered a case is the more side clearance it has as head space is increased and AK'S run pretty loose.
Think about two funnels stacked together . Now pull them apart say a inch . The distance between the sides is pretty large.
Now think of two pipes slid togther. . Now slide the inner pipe back the same distance . The side clearance is still the same.

So on a more tapered round like 7.62x39 head space needs to be pretty snug to have the round be consistant in the chamber.
A bullet starting .005" out of center and cocked in a loose chamber won't enter the rifeling centered. The rifeling imparts a groove in the bullet. If it's not centered then grooves on one side will be deeper. Now the bullet is not balanced and accuracy takes a hit.

Will a milled hunter be sub 1"??
Very possable if the head space is tight, the ammo is really good as some thing like Lapua or good hand loads on good consistant brass. It dosent take a great barrel to shoot 1" .
You need a optic that is solid. On a stamped reciver a side rail is not a great choice.
On a milled rifle they can work but the lower and stiffer the better.

A good trigger is almost a must to allow a human to fire the rifle and not move it.

Longer barrels don't mean better accuracy at shorter ranges.
They do help velocity and that helps on longer shots were fight time in wind affects accuracy.

A stiffer barrel is generaly better. This is more true with cheaper in consistant ammo as the amount of barrel flex is less so a in consistant round will affect the position the muzzel is in when the bullet leaves less.
Poor quality ammo will still be affected by velocity inconsistency but a stiffer barrel less affected by velocity inconsistencies.
The slower bullet will still hit lower.

So yes it's possable for a stock AK to be sub 1". Big question is are you.
There are a lot of bolt actions out there that can shoot sub 1/2" MOA there are a lot less owners of them who can be as good as the rifle.
A AK is not easy to shoot for target. There not made to.
The sit bags poorely, the best triggers are not great, the dwell time of the hammer swing us not ideal and the firing pin is heavy and also a pretty loose part. .
Getting off 5 perfect shots in a row with a AK is not easy.

Ammo ,trigger, sighting system are the big three you can easly change.

Last edited by 1biggun; 11-26-2017 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:20 PM   #55
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With good ammo many AK'S can be 1" MOA with a factory barrel.
I have had a few shoot the old PMC soft points right at 1".

The factory cheer is pretty loose . They can have over .010" next clearance were a target type rifle might br a little as .001".
The more tapered a case is the more side clearance it has as head space is increased and AK'S run pretty loose.
Think about two funnels stacked together . Now pull them apart say a inch . The distance between the sides is pretty large.
Now think of two pipes slid togther. . Now slide the inner pipe back the same distance . The side clearance is still the same.

So on a more tapered round like 7.62x39 head space needs to be pretty snug to have the round be consistant in the chamber.
A bullet starting .005" out of center and cocked in a loose chamber won't enter the rifeling centered. The rifeling imparts a groove in the bullet. If it's not centered then grooves on one side will be deeper. Now the bullet is not balanced and accuracy takes a hit.

Will a milled hunter be sub 1"??
Very piss able if the head space is tight, the ammo is really good as some thing like Lapua or good hand loads on good consistant brass. It dosent take a great barrel to shoot 1" .
You need a optic that is solid. On a stamped reciver a side rail is not a great choice.
On a milled rifle they can work but the lower and stiffer the better.

A good trigger is almost a must to allow a human to fire the rifle and not move it.

Longer barrels don't mean better accuracy at shorter ranges.
They do help velocity and that helps on longer shots were fight time in wind affects accuracy.

A stiffer barrel is generaly better. This is more true with cheaper in consistant ammo as the amount of barrel flex is less so a in consistant round will affect the position the muzzel is in when the bullet leaves less.
Poor quality ammo will still be affected by velocity inconsistency but a stiffer barrel less affected by velocity inconsistencies.
The slower bullet will still hit lower.

So yes it's possable for a stock AK to be sub 1". Big question is are you.
There are a lot of bolt actions out there that can shoot sub 1/2" MOA there are a lot less owners of them who can be as good as the rifle.
A AK is not easy to shoot for target. There not made to.
The sit bags poorely, the best triggers are not great, the dwell time of the hammer swing us not ideal and the firing pin is heavy and also a pretty loose part. .
Getting off 5 perfect shots in a row with a AK is not easy.

Ammo ,trigger, sighting system are the big three you can easly change.
You bring up a lot of good points, and I agree with most all of them.
However, I still don't believe that it's as easy as you [or others] make it seem to find a sub MOA AK.

There's no doubt that many have gotten AK's to shoot some sub MOA groups. Probably most of these examples are random 3-shot groups, some 5-shot groups.
My Tikka has shot several .25MOA groups too. But i would in no way call it a .25MOA rifle. I would call it a .85MOA rifle, and i think I got a good one.

I have yet to see someone in all of the internet, or in person, produce a target with multiple groups shot by an AK that are sub minute.
I'd want to see at least 6 non cherry picked groups to believe any AK is truly a sub MOA rifle.

That's just me though.

Afterthought: I'd be willing to pay a decent amount of money for a true sub MOA AK using any factory ammo.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:34 PM   #56
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Very very few people take the time to try.
Most have never shoot aanything but steel ammo.

My AMD 65 pistol with a factory barrel is consistantly right at 1" with hand loads.
Keep in mind it got a big optic and a good trigger and hand loads with a lot of development.

Most of my factory barrel rifles are right at 1.5" or less and 1" is not a shock. Again good ammo , trigger and on those my own cantalever mounts. .

The AMD pistol will go from 1" to about 3" if I turn the brake back one turn and run it loose.

It dosent take much to screw up a group.

Those Tika's are good guns. My Dad's 22-250 would print sub 3/4" about every group. And was likely much better on average.

Most guys can't shoot 5 1/2" groups with the best rifles on earth.
I likely cant. However if my small bore varmint rifles can't hold 1/2" accuracy it's got a issue. My ability have no bearing on the rifle.


It takes some good glass ,bags,bench and conditions to do that.

If there was 7.62x39 brass with thicker necks some gain could be had.
I messed with only partially neck sizing cases and gains were seen but it's a lot of work . I'd leave a 1/4 of the neck over size.

With a custom barrel and reamer improvements are very doable.

I had a custom reamer that was .004" neck clearance on a .308 bullet. ( 308x39).
With a .311 bullet It was almost a neck turning situation.
With a m70 profile weight barrel but 18" long that was bench rest quality I was shooting right at 1/2" and every thing was under 3/4"
I had a .488" group with 110 groan Vmax .
Again custom barrel and chamber. BUT it was a stamped reciver and stock carrier and bolt.
24x optic on a cantalever mount and a 2.5 pound really reworked trigger. Not some thing you carried. Reliability was fine .

If you want a 1" AK it's doable but your going to hand load likely.

On a custom build I think the AK componets may hold a few cards over a better end AR15. perticularly in barrel OD and ability to cam a round into the chamber.
I'm working on proving it .
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:30 PM   #57
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the round is not worth the effort.

If there was 7.62x39 brass with thicker necks some gain could be had.
I messed with only partially neck sizing cases and gains were seen but it's a lot of work . I'd leave a 1/4 of the neck over size.

But seems others think and have tried to make it better.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:27 AM   #58
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the round is not worth the effort.

If there was 7.62x39 brass with thicker necks some gain could be had.
I messed with only partially neck sizing cases and gains were seen but it's a lot of work . I'd leave a 1/4 of the neck over size.

But seems others think and have tried to make it better.
The 7.63x39 can be very accurate.
There have been Benchrest rifles built in it although I don't know of any winning any major events.
There have been 7.67x39 rifles built that shoot in the 3's
Likely with 308 bores and bullets.

I messed with 7.62x39 a bunch years back when Graff & Sons had 110 grain Vmax in .310"
I had to reload them any way .

When all the barrels had to be cut on new kits for a while there was nobody making AK barrels and there was no cheap .311 blanks so I had a reamer made that optomised .308 bullets.
That led to seeing how good a 7.62x39 ak could shoot.
A guy from Alaska sent me a 1-14 twist barrel off a 30 BR target rifle. I rechambered it to take RPK and m70 parts and it shot some under 1/2" groups on a NDS reciver. Keep in mind the barrel was shooting in the 3's on sleeved remington action beforehand.
A $350 barrel blank helps

I lost interest in 7.62x39 accuracy when I started hunting with AK pistols in other caliburs.

I never said a super accurate AK was a good idea . I just said it can be done.
The trajectory of the slow 7.62x39 makes it a poor choice for target work over 200 yards.

I did raise a few eyebrows shooting Prairie dogs with a 7.62x39 pistol in 7.62 at 200 yards however that was fun.

If you want longer range go with a 223 or maybe a 6.5 grendel in a AK length mag well.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:37 AM   #59
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Ok. It can be but it won't be ever.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:27 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Very very few people take the time to try.
Most have never shoot aanything but steel ammo.

My AMD 65 pistol with a factory barrel is consistantly right at 1" with hand loads.
Keep in mind it got a big optic and a good trigger and hand loads with a lot of development.

Most of my factory barrel rifles are right at 1.5" or less and 1" is not a shock. Again good ammo , trigger and on those my own cantalever mounts. .

The AMD pistol will go from 1" to about 3" if I turn the brake back one turn and run it loose.

It dosent take much to screw up a group.

Those Tika's are good guns. My Dad's 22-250 would print sub 3/4" about every group. And was likely much better on average.

Most guys can't shoot 5 1/2" groups with the best rifles on earth.
I likely cant. However if my small bore varmint rifles can't hold 1/2" accuracy it's got a issue. My ability have no bearing on the rifle.


It takes some good glass ,bags,bench and conditions to do that.

If there was 7.62x39 brass with thicker necks some gain could be had.
I messed with only partially neck sizing cases and gains were seen but it's a lot of work . I'd leave a 1/4 of the neck over size.

With a custom barrel and reamer improvements are very doable.

I had a custom reamer that was .004" neck clearance on a .308 bullet. ( 308x39).
With a .311 bullet It was almost a neck turning situation.
With a m70 profile weight barrel but 18" long that was bench rest quality I was shooting right at 1/2" and every thing was under 3/4"
I had a .488" group with 110 groan Vmax .
Again custom barrel and chamber. BUT it was a stamped reciver and stock carrier and bolt.
24x optic on a cantalever mount and a 2.5 pound really reworked trigger. Not some thing you carried. Reliability was fine .

If you want a 1" AK it's doable but your going to hand load likely.

On a custom build I think the AK componets may hold a few cards over a better end AR15. perticularly in barrel OD and ability to cam a round into the chamber.
I'm working on proving it .
I'm sure there may be a few out there; but like you said, the stars would need to align so far as how they were put together, and you would need to hand load for them.

A lot has to do with the shooter, but even more has to do with the rifle and ammo. I agree that there are a lot of people out there who cant shoot as well as they think they can.
But I have seem many precision shooters [that can and do] put several sub 1/2 MOA groups on paper in a row with their high end rifles, then shoot an off the shelf standard hunting rifle averaging 1.25" at 100yds. These were on rifles that hunters have brought to us and claimed to be 1/2 MOA rifles as well. This was because they've shot 1/2 MOA out of them before, but not repeatably. In these cases it's not the shooter, it's the rifle.
A lot of people think that because they shot one 1/2" groups with their rifle at a 100yds, this means that their rifle is a half MOA rifle, and that any worse groups are because of their error or some other factor. This is not always the case. As you know, there are many factors within the rifle and ammo that will show a noticeable deviation in results, even if all shooter error is taken out.


You sound like you may be more knowledgeable than I am on the subject, but strictly based on my 10yrs of experience shooting for long range & precision and the people whom of which I've shot with & learned from, I would have to say that the average rifle is less accurate than what people think, despite what one may read on the internet or hear via fish tale. There are many bad shooters out there as well, but we may just disagree based on our own experiences.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:35 AM   #61
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I’ve been waiting on you guys to call bullshit on this, I didn’t want to be the one to do it.
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:38 AM   #62
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Bakwa.
Things deffentaly have to be right for good groups to happen in 7.62x39 to put down good groups.
Wind is a major factor with a slower round like this.

I have found that most AK'S are more accurate than guys think.
The trigger is a big factor. Even though they often suck it dosent male the gun inaccurate it means the shooter just can't shoot it to its potential.
When working with my 223 AK rig I have had it in single shot mode with a trigger down to about 1.5 pounds and I quickly realized a lot of the problem was me not the gun.
While that rigle is about as far from stock as you can go it does prove that a stamped reciver can get you to 1/2" moa with a cantalever mount.
I'm not going to claim ever group was 1/2" but it did it enough to know the rifle is capable.
Ammo consistantly was more likely the issue than the gun.

When you get them shooting good then it's easier to note little changes making a differance.
At 1/2 or even 3/4" you can see what affect things like neck tension or a 1/4 grain of powder and .010" of bullet seating differance do to a group.
I have had custom barrel rifles shooting well enough to see two seperate groups when mag feed and can tell what rounds feed from the LH side of the mag vs the RH side.
It's then you start thinking about affects carrier and bolt play make.
I never be lived it until I read of Velimite shooter reporting simular things on some of there target set ups.

7.62x39 has almost zero high quality ammo .
Lapua makes some good ammo at over a $1 a round.
But it dosent make up for loose factory neck clearance and a mile of free bore.
That ammo in a bolt action with a chamber suited for target shooting is more accurate than most shooters.
It's not like a 223 or 308 were good factory ammo options exist with choices to try.
At least there is good brass avaliable.

As far some AK'S being a 1" gun consistantly factor in the average range report we see.
It will be along the lines of .
Well Cephis and I were banging steel out to 200 yards there about shooting of the hood of the truck with a combo of wolf and tula ammo with a red dot mounted on a dust cover mount.
We were using a wadded up beer case for a rest. The wind kept blowing smoke in my eyes.
90% of AK owners likely have never shot a good round of ammo in there rifle.

Wolf ammo in a proven bolt action seldom can do 1" . It's just not good stuff.

To really know what can be done you need to put in a effort.

I see a lot of what your talking about with the AR crowd as well.
They think they have a 1/2" gun because it shot some good groups once .
They have cheap factory ammo, play in the upper and likely haven't cleaned or maintained the barrel in 500 rounds and are shooting of a back pack or somthing.

I'll try to get the picture thing figured out so I can post some groups.
I have been playing with ARS and mostly a Wildcat round the last year but I'm working on a pair of custom AK that I'm hoping will give the best AR,s a run for there money.
To put it in perspective a barrel off a 6mm PPC with custom remington 700 type reciver will screw into the AK trunion when done. It still will run a standard AK bolt and carrier however.
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Old 11-24-2017, 08:32 PM   #63
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We shoot a lot of 7.62x39 here, with an emphasis on practical accuracy, so I'm going to add a few experiences. I do want to preface this by saying I think basic x39 ammo is under-rated, but I have never seen anything like .5 MOA from our 7.62x39 rifles. We use Tula instead of Wolf because I can find it locally or buy it at decent prices online.

Last summer I stumbled into a good deal on a CZ-527M with a basic Bushnell 3x9 scope on it.



My wife had been shooting a 30-06 and thanks to a couple of wrecks and surgeries, it was getting to be a little much for her. So I acquired it and started zeroing it with Tula FMJ, because we have a case of it. It soon proved more accurate than I thought with that ammo, producing groups like this across my 196 yard pasture. I'm pretty sure the high shot was my fault.



I also have an old WASR 10-63, upon which I have made a few accuracy improvements- tuned Red Star Trigger, Tech Sights and a careful re-crowning of the muzzle. It also got a coat of boat paint and plastic Magpul furniture, because it was going to be my go-to shitty weather gun.



I wanted to make sure the Techs would return to zero, after removing them for cleaning. I rough-zeroed the WASR on the same 196 yard range, removed the Techs and included dust cover and threw the works down range about ten yards. Upon reinstalling them, I fired another five shots at the plate from the same distance. The dot is roughly 3 3/4” in diameter and again, I'll eat the high shot.



IMHO these rifles shoot pretty good for what they are and certainly well enough for 200 yard deer/coyote hunting. I am shooting from the rickety-ass folding table in the top photo, usually over a range bag or pack. With the optics, rest and sights involved that Tula FMJ is giving pretty much all the accuracy I can use.
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Old 11-24-2017, 09:52 PM   #64
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Those CZ 527s are good guns.
A buddy had one he bought to make a 6mm PPC.
before he pulled the 7.62 barrel he was shooting right at 3/4" with some winchester factory loads .
I'd like to have one but have about zero use for it.

Have you considered the remington youth loads for you wife's
30-06?

I do a few down loaded 06 loads.
Y son was shooting the "Army Gun A Peruvian mauser " when he was 9 with some red dot loads with about 9 grains of powder.
At 50 yards we were doing great with it and cast bullets.

At 100 yards a good 7.62x39 cam be as accurate as about any other rifle.

Nice CZ
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Old 11-24-2017, 10:29 PM   #65
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1BigGun,

I see your points.
I recognize that with a good build and good ammo, one could have a decently accurate AK. I'm still not as optimistic about 7.62x39 rifles as you are though. Perhaps more life experience and testing will sway my opinion in time.

Gunir,

That CZ 527 seems to be a sweet rifle. I would love to have one, one day. I hear that they're 1.25-1.50 MOA rifles with standard ammo, which is awesome for that caliber.
If I were to believe any factory 7.62x39 rifle was capable of being a real sub MOA rifle with good factory ammo, it would be this one.

Happy shooting, both of you.
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:00 AM   #66
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About two months ago, I took my AMD65 kit build with a 12.5" barrel and a Burris Fast Fire II; and landed 90 consecutive shots on a 24" gong that was 200 yards down-field.

I am sure that some of those 90 rounds touched...

But seriously; I figure that this gong is the size of a window at 200 yards, so if my target is in an urban setting, I'm pretty sure that I'm either zapping or scaring the shit out of it.



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Old 11-25-2017, 04:00 AM   #67
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I shot bigfoot at 1000 yards with a CZ-527M in x39

BS detect that!
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Old 11-25-2017, 10:19 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Element View Post
I shot bigfoot at 1000 yards with a CZ-527M in x39

BS detect that!
Passed. Where is the best cut of meat on one?
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Old 11-25-2017, 11:41 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakwa View Post
1BigGun,

I see your points.
I recognize that with a good build and good ammo, one could have a decently accurate AK. I'm still not as optimistic about 7.62x39 rifles as you are though. Perhaps more life experience and testing will sway my opinion in time.

Gunir,

That CZ 527 seems to be a sweet rifle. I would love to have one, one day. I hear that they're 1.25-1.50 MOA rifles with standard ammo, which is awesome for that caliber.
If I were to believe any factory 7.62x39 rifle was capable of being a real sub MOA rifle with good factory ammo, it would be this one.

Happy shooting, both of you.
Standard ammo as in steel cased stuff like Wolf sells is not very good..
Only in 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 is poor quality ammo the standard.
With most common rounds the quality that wolf steel brings would be considered a joke.
To put things in perspective some cheap Mosburg shotguns with slugs will out shoot good rifles with wolf ammo.

What A good rifle does with crap ammo tells nothing about the rifle.
I'd bet that CZ with good ammo is at 3/4" or better all day long just like there other models based on the same action.

The 7.62x39 round can be very very accurate it just is not going to be $3.99 a box.
The 7.62x39 will never be a good long range round.
Flight time and poor trajectory kill it's ability after 200 yards .

Time and time again guys will say the 7.62x39 is not accurate . This is simply not true. It's the parent round to arguably several of the most accurate target rounds on earth.
There is nothing that is a major deterrent to good accuracy.
It's less than sharp shoulder junctions do promote case stretch and make reloading a bit harder but with good brass it's no differant than any other round.

A 1-10 twist or about seen in most AK'S and other rifles is way to fast for the short 123 grain bullets normal seen .
It makes little sense to me to have a twist rate better suited for 165 to 180 grain bullets on a AK.
over spinning a good bullet does not have a horrable affect but over spinning poor quality in balanced bullet like 99% of 7.63x39 ammo is, kills accuracy.

The standard 7.62x39 round will stabilize fine in a much slower twist . 1-14 would likely be better suited and even a 1-16 would likely work well.
Consider what a simular size round the 30 bench rest runs with high BC bullets .
Even many 308 win rifles run a 1-12 with heavier bullets the 1-10 or 1- 9.5 twist AK'S run make little sense to me.
Might be good for a 180 grain or heavy subsonic that are not avaliable and not really used by any military in any quanity.

Best 7.62x39 group I have ever shot was with a 1-14 twist.

If your going to shoot crap ammo best to not over spin it.
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Old 11-25-2017, 06:13 PM   #70
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Sighting in a 10 inch barrel M92 yesterday. 25 yards GoldenTiger. This was my last group.





I have never understood the myth of AK inaccuracy.
If I can quickly fire a full magazine of bulk, case, Tula, Golden Tiger, ect., and get 90+% of them on an 8" paper plate at 100 yards I am quite satisfied.
I have not had the opportunity to shoot longer distances, but ringing a gong at 200 yards, I don't see a problem.
Much beyond that you should probably choose a different tool.

First time out with this M92 with a just mounted Aimpoint H-1. First target 25 yards.
Sighted in aiming at the center, then worked around the edges, from bottom right, clockwise, fine tuning. You can see the first group of three out in the white by itself.
Final group, top right.

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