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Old 12-03-2017, 05:11 PM   #106
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LOL. Finally something for factory 5.45 to shoot at.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:01 PM   #107
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To me a adjustable rear site for elevation on a military rifle is for inexperienced shooters who can't calculate hold over.
I never understood the need for it on a AK .
Most guys can't tell 240 yards from 400 yards and if you don't know range what good is it?? The need for a full auto AK in 7.62x39 to have some 800 yard position makes little sense to me .
It's like having a 160 mph speedometer on that smart car.
Ever handle a WW1/WW2 boltgun? Why do you think they had leaf increments out to 2000? Hint: its not for aimed shots, its so that a group of riflemen can simulate a beltfed and engage in plunging fire and create a beaten zone. The British were known for being very skilled at this.

The leaf sight is a great system if you know how to use it, holding over at distance with irons sucks.
The 300m battle zero, is a fine do all and if you want POA=POI you have that option as well.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:44 PM   #108
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Ever handle a WW1/WW2 boltgun? Why do you think they had leaf increments out to 2000? Hint: its not for aimed shots, its so that a group of riflemen can simulate a beltfed and engage in plunging fire and create a beaten zone. The British were known for being very skilled at this.
I did not know this ^^^^^

Thanks for the information.


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Old 12-04-2017, 01:51 PM   #109
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Does a AK look like or used as WWII bilt action?

Like I said it is of little use in today's world and adds complications.

On a semi auto in the US its about useless. Unless you had a range finder and past 300 yards you better start calculating a point of aim every 25 yards or so and that's going to take some serious range estimation skills.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:12 PM   #110
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Does a AK look like or used as WWII bilt action?

Like I said it is of little use in today's world and adds complications.

On a semi auto in the US its about useless. Unless you had a range finder and past 300 yards you better start calculating a point of aim every 25 yards or so and that's going to take some serious range estimation skills.
If you have 4 guys attempting to suppress a position 700 meters away, wether your AK is semi or full auto then that is the way you would do it. (With irons of course).
The british did it with boltguns that had a 10 round internal magazine if I recall, a few guys with a semi auto and 30 + round mags should be able to do it just fine as long as the guy who calls the distance to the target is correct.

If you like a 200 meter zero, then zero with it set at 2 and leave it there and use the holds as you desire, if you like a 25 yard +1" zero then set it all the way back to the battle setting and leave it there without having to change anything else.

It doesnt "add complications", it gives the user an option that you have decided (as is your prerogative) that you dont care about.

You dont have to recalculate every 25 yards, thats the whole point. If you zero in METERS, and estimate to be engaging at 400 meters then set it to 4 for example. Thats a hell of a lot easier than estimating, and then *holding over* while your sight completely obscures your target.

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Old 12-04-2017, 04:27 PM   #111
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Figure on having 4 guys laying down fire to surpressor a position any time soon???? Like I said of little use in the US ON these.

Most guys can't tell 300 meters from 600 meters. So with out a range finder your still guessing were to set it so again

With the sloping trajectory of the 7.62x39 you will need to start calculating every 25 yards or do or your not going to surpressor shit. And again your still guessing.

Tell me there is not a complication when you forgot it's set at say 400 meters and your no trying to shoot 75.
I have seen the leafs bent and broken as well so that going to be a complication. I have had the leaf catch clothes and brush before as well.

Never had a issue calculating and holding over on iron sighted deer rifles. Its amazing anybody every hit a thing with a 30-30 lever action I guess.

I agree with obscuring the target but at long range you pointed out your ting to lay surpessive fire.

I have a bunch of WWI AND WWII rifles and a few others.
The Enfield is not bad with no leaf the mausers are SO SO.
I have hunted with a few of them.

Most guys I know never touch the leaf on there AKs.
I can figure 12" of hold over on anything I'm actualy trying to hit or kill yes.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:57 AM   #112
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I dont understand why youre upset about a military rifle having a feature useful for military purposes. If all you care about is shooting paper and deer than be my guest and do it however you want.
To answer your question, yes I fear that I might have to do something like that at some point. Thats why I got into this in first place. Theres cheaper, equally enjoyable ways for me to spend my time recreationally with a third of the hassle. I have guns and train with them because I think its important, not because its fun.

I dont know about you, but I can tell that my leaf isnt set at a near setting the second I shoulder my rifle. The difference between 500 and the battle setting is quite obvious.

Switching from the battle zero to a specific range setting is a concious decision made after the range estimation, if you forget to switch it back thats on you...same as if you dont set the range properly on your multimeter.

Yes, youre guessing. You guess the range the target is at, and in the case of a holdover youre then guessing how high over youre holding. The adjustment removes one of those guesses, the same way the BDC does on an ACOG.
The sights were designed to be aimed (if anything) *LOW*, not high...so you can always see and track your target even if its moving, which is why those 25 yard increments you keep talking about are irrelevant when shooting at man sized targets.

If you aim at the belt buckle on the battle setting then your maximum bullet rise is 7" at about 150 and then it works its way back down. If you estimate 500, again you aim low with the "pumpkin on a post hold" and fundamentals/rifle/ammo allowing you will hit your target.
Theres no point in arguing about this, this is how the sights were designed and when used that way they work as intended. If you choose to use them differently then I can see why you would think its stupid. The important thing here is that you know how to use your rifle, whichever way that happens to be is your choice and circumstance.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:35 PM   #113
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Well first you don't have a military rifle you have a semi automatic copy .
Either way I under stand why you have a AK and how you think you might possibly use it.

Personally the need for the sight leaf for IMO 99% of shooters and shooting is not that necessary. Frankly the likely hood of you every laying down cover fire at some long range is about six hundred million to one VS the ladder bending or breaking some thing I have seen on kits I have demilled and once in person or it snagging on clothing some thing I have had actually happen is a lot more likely . But Its your rifle an your money .

I don't think the Galil and a few other AK variants use the adjustable leaf but what do they or I know .

generally if I have to bury the target behind the entire sight on a 7.62x39 its to far away to be shooting at effectively with any way . I respect the fact you at least are aware of that happening at very long range and brought it up . Most guys are not .

Hell im having varmint's leave the view of a 10x scope on some long range 7.62x39 shots LOL . Im literally aiming at rocks 15 feet above them shooting and dropping the rifle to view the hit before it gets there . No BS
Yea Im a idiot trying to hit a prairie dog at 600 yards with a 7.62x39 . It can be done mostly by accident if you keep tying . LOL

No argument on knowing how to use what ever method you choose .
Personally I have my AKs zeroed at 100 yards I know the slight hold over needed for 200 yards and am decent at 300 yards .

Personally Id happily take a RSB that could would have or accept a rail section with a slot down the center for a rear sight . Its what I have been doing on some build for over 14 years or more . I posted one years back on Gunco Now a company is claiming its there idea and has a patent pending despite similar products exist also .

You want the best of both worlds? How about a RSB with a sight leaf set down in the middle of it ???
that should make both of us happy . Im working on one . Maybe some one can steal that idea and patent it to.

I guess my feeling is if I need to lob in cover fire from long range Ill be guessing any way so I don't need the extra parts .

Good news it there are abut 100,000,000 AKs set up like you want
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:26 PM   #114
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\
Personally I have my AKs zeroed at 100 yards I know the slight hold over needed for 200 yards and am decent at 300 yards .
And that is the beauty of the Tech Sight. Zero the 0-200 aperture for 200 yards and the flip-up will be on to roughly 325. I need to shoot a 400 yard B27 with the flip-up using a head hold to be certain, but I believe it'll drop them on the torso at 400.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:30 PM   #115
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You do know that at about 700 meters the zero is about were the sight pin enters the FSB on the average AK and nothing is really covered that much right ??

generally raising the post abut a 1/16" above flush with the rear is good for a 300 yard shot .

Im basing this off my AMD 65 is shoot the most with a 12" barrel .

I figured the hold over were the pin meets the RSB while laying down cover fire against a hoard of charging ground squirrels while being flanked by Raccoon's in SHTF situation were I had to bug out of my bunker because they wanted my prepper provisions of granola and sunflower seeds .
only by years of dedicated training and running drills with other operator's was I able to survive. Sadly my Gard cat Zippy was not so lucky and lost all here kibble and had to rely on C rations until a Evac could get us to or base vehicle

most kids learn were there 22,s hit by the time there 10 if they get to shoot much its how I learned .
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:30 AM   #116
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I have no idea what youre talking about. I dont bother knowing what the hold is at that distance, I have a BDC on my optic and a setting on my irons.

If you zero at 1 at 100 meters your battle setting is around poa/poi 260 meters/280 yards.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:08 AM   #117
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You want the best of both worlds? How about a RSB with a sight leaf set down in the middle of it ???
Attero already makes something similar to that. I prefer using the side rail myself
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:33 PM   #118
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The Attero mount I'm fermilular with replaces a sight leaf.

I'm talking about a railed RSB with a adjustable leaf sunk in the middle.
Instead if just a rail with a slot down the middle. The middle could be adjusted .

A side rail on a stamped reciver will never hold zero for any precision shooting . having a optic mounted 3.5" above a rail riveted to .040" sheet metal is not a ideal situation. Any flex induced by how the gun is held, benched ,rested ect.
I'm hoping to do some back to back testing of a side rail and my set up on the 6.5 grendel I'm planing on doing next.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:53 PM   #119
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I have no idea what youre talking about. I dont bother knowing what the hold is at that distance, I have a BDC on my optic and a setting on my irons.

If you zero at 1 at 100 meters your battle setting is around poa/poi 260 meters/280 yards.
If your looking down the barrel and you have the sight pin about 1/16" above the top of the rear tight that's about were your 200 yard hold is.
It's about were the front pin starts coming out of the FSB that would be flush with the top of the rear sight at that point

I have done a fair amount of hunting with the AK. I don't have time to dick around squeezing the sides of sight leafs and sliding shit around when something jumps out or every shot that's not 100 yards.

If it's a deer and about 200 yards you aim slightly above its back not say hold on hold on I got to adjust my gun.
If it's past 250 I'm not even going to bother bullet performance sucks on the game I'm shooting at.
I have better rifles for that.

As far as 280 yards on a battle setting mist guys targets look like they were guessing anyways were to aim with irons.

Ever notice the old rifles with buck horn sights have a few steps in them ??

Big fan of mil dots or BDC set ups on optics especialy on my long range rim fires and other slip moving caliburs.

Have a 20 MOA rail on a 10-22 and with a 18x optic I can work out 300 yards using dots . With a 22 LR 5 feet matter at 300 yards but it's fun to screw around with trying to hit a P dog with one at that range. It's surprisingly doable with no wind.

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Old 12-07-2017, 11:26 AM   #120
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As far as 280 yards on a battle setting mist guys targets look like they were guessing anyways were to aim with irons.

Ever notice the old rifles with buck horn sights have a few steps in them ??
.
What most guys do, when they dont actually understand whats happening will likely be guessing yes. The point of a battle setting is that you always aim at the same spot and you'll hit *somewhere*. If Im shooting at a man sized target Ive never had a problem hitting out to 300m as long as I wear my glasses.

I think I know what you mean. Regarding the steps but as I understand those are for range estimation. Theres a formula I have written down somewhere that you can use for using your front sight to estimate range. The guy I got it from *insisted* that the variables are the width of your front sight, in relation to your sight radius....which makes no sense. It should be the distance between your *eye* and the front sight, unless I dont understand whats happening (which is possible). I have to test it out and see but my longer distance range time is limited.

I have no experience with receiver flex and how much effect if any it has. AKs are prohibited up here so I roll with Vz58s which have milled receivers and side rails
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:16 PM   #121
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Vz58s are nice rifles I have never personally owned one but I did a barrel and some other work for one in 6.5 Green Doll ( Yes green doll) before you could get a Grendel reamer .
it was on a Adams Benet barrel blank from midway I think back when they had them maybe Brownells .
the guy shot right at 3/4" I was told and he had a side mount as well .
I still owe the guy money and some of his parts back if I can ever find his email address again . he was a Gunco member .

if you have a fixed width of height if a as part of your site you can likely calculate the the distance of how a average man or deer fits in the picture .
some scopes are set up like that for deer .

Im better at saying that xxxx yards and I need to hold xxx over it if im shooting something on the move .
that from hunting moving game out west .

some were a few yrears back I noted that my 200 yard hold on a target was the same if I aligned were the pin was scrwed into the FSB with the top of the rear sight or just about 1/16 " above the rear sight for the top of the pin . I think I was shooting at the top of the target to hit the middle and nted that .

The issue with doing things my way vs yours is my way only works for the one caliber and the one gun your way if the latter site is accurate works for every gun your holding in that correct calibur for it .

I never said the stock set up was no good I just said its not rally used by most shooters on a AK . I think a railed RSB that could take a optic or a cantilever rail for a scope would help a lot of guys who want to shoot farther more accurately . It certainly has helped me . we take scoped 223 and 6mmBRX AKs out past 800 yards on Prairie dogs .


If I ever have to aim at a man hopefully I don't ever Id likely be shaking so much it would not matter what site I had .

Wish I had bought a VZ58 years back . I had a chance to get a 223 version once and regret I passed on it .
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:57 AM   #122
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Fair enough. I didnt get into this gradually over a lifetime, I was born in the city and Im gonna be stuck here for a few more years until my plans come to fruition so my dry fire time and research/asking questions outnumbers my range time by 20:1. When I go shooting I have to think about whats going on to maximise my time there.

Vz58s are great guns but the 223 versions can be iffy. Theres weird gas/feeding issues from what I hear.
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:45 PM   #123
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Fair enough. I didnt get into this gradually over a lifetime, I was born in the city and Im gonna be stuck here for a few more years until my plans come to fruition so my dry fire time and research/asking questions outnumbers my range time by 20:1. When I go shooting I have to think about whats going on to maximise my time there.

Vz58s are great guns but the 223 versions can be iffy. Theres weird gas/feeding issues from what I hear.
kind of like I said about a fast easy way for a military to teach unskilled shooters were to aim in a hurry .

A LOT of what you said about the battle setting is good info that a majority of shooters don't know .

While I have zero Military training or back ground I suspect most seasoned vets never move there sight leaf much . On a 7.62x39 its likely needed more .
on a flat shooting 5.45 or 5.56 Id bet with Iron sight its even less .

On the one open site 223 I have at any range I can hit a small varmint or target with no optics I pretty much aim at it and shoot . if its 300 yards and that's a stretch for me these days as my eyes are not as good as when I was younger id just old over slightly .

Different story with a 7.62x39 . the drop of it from 300 yards to 400 yards is almsot 40" . so that were my comments about you would need to recalculate to hit a 10" target about every 25 yards or so . hitting a human is a bit different but your going to want to hit in the top half of one if possible
there is about a 10" drop between 300 and 350 yards .
350 yards has a 42" drop about based on a 100 yard zero . Ill admit that's a tough one to calculate hold over on and you better know the range and maybe want to use the sight leaf if you know it .
A 7" drop at 200 yards based on a 100 yard zero Is easy to figure . On a deer just put the sight at the top of its back or slightly above depending on were you want to hit .

Yea I forget not every kid got a pellet gun at 5 year olf got a pellet gun at 5 a 22 at about 9 and a deer rifle and shot gun at around 12 and got to carry them about 250 days a year . I was blessed growing up .
I was shooting stuff at past 50 yars with the old Crossman 70 pump master when I was about 7 . even shot a few quail mid flight with it .
you learn a lot about hold over with a pellet gun or 22 lr when your a kid have lots of ammo and lots of things to shoot at . When your young you think you can hit anything if you can see it LOL.
I didn't always make hits . the tops on Moms garden posts were the Raspberry's grow are literally almost a mass of solid lead from 177 pellets that hit about 3" low and that's been 43 years ago I started shooting at things on those posts . years back Dad measured the post from the fence I would shoot from and it was 45 yards .

all I have to say is in a defense situation I doubt there is time to adjust sights in a hurry and practice and knowing your rifle is the best investment IMO
7.62x39 is a hard round to be good at past 250 years .

Most guys cant tell 250 yards from 350 yards unless there is a man or deer or known object in it .
we play guess the range a lot in South Dakota .
seasoned white tail hunters will almost always say 250 or 300 yards is 500 or more . guys who hunt the western states will generally be to closest in there guess but it often still over estimated .


I hope you didn't take any thing as disrespect .
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:50 PM   #124
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...4&d=1453766054

How far do you think the top of that hill is in the above picture .????

That's my varmint AK rig in the foreground the Praire dogs in that picture are 25 yards about .

with nothing between the Pdogs and the top of the hill It nearly impossible to even remotely guess .

I need to get the picture posting thing figured out .
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:56 PM   #125
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^ You make a good point. My only rebuttal is that almost nothing within 500km of me looks anything close to that so its not a subject I even considered. If I had to guess based on the picture, 500meters

Can we have a better picture of that rifle? Looks like a neat setup
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:54 PM   #126
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Yugo Opap, box stock, 4-12 Leupold optic . Handloaded .30 cal 165 gr Spitzer and 22.2 gr of Benchmark powder, shooting benchrest off a rock solid front rest and rear bag I was able to shoot 1.66 moa at 100 yds. Factory Wolf 123 gr hp's i'm at about 2.3 moa. The biggest accuracy hindrance with my Opap is the heavy millspec trigger. Still happy with what I got with my handloads.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:16 AM   #127
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I fire a 3 round group bullet holes are touching. Fire another 3, same deal but on a diffrent part of the plate. They dont want to stay together
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:43 AM   #128
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I'd like to see at least a couple of the hundreds of rifles you've swapped calibers and made target barrels on biggun.

You speak of them so much, but never share these low MOA masterpieces.
Quit being selfish and share them, damn.
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:03 AM   #129
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...4&d=1453766054

How far do you think the top of that hill is in the above picture .????

That's my varmint AK rig in the foreground the Praire dogs in that picture are 25 yards about .

with nothing between the Pdogs and the top of the hill It nearly impossible to even remotely guess .

I need to get the picture posting thing figured out .
Big, you will have to come up with a better pic. Form the 1st glance, bottom of that hill where barrel is pointing looks ~ 500m away. Top is about 1.2-1.4km. I highly doubt that you are hitting anything 1.2km away.
As i look at it longer, bottom looks like 3-400m away and top somewhere around 800-1km away... That pic is deceiving.

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Old 12-09-2017, 12:47 PM   #130
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Big, you will have to come up with a better pic. Form the 1st glance, bottom of that hill where barrel is pointing looks ~ 500m away. Top is about 1.2-1.4km. I highly doubt that you are hitting anything 1.2km away.
As i look at it longer, bottom looks like 3-400m away and top somewhere around 800-1km away... That pic is deceiving.
It is nearly impossible to judge distance looking at a picture or watching a video.
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:58 PM   #131
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650 yards. I just had my internet eyes calibrated.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:08 PM   #132
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Big, you will have to come up with a better pic. Form the 1st glance, bottom of that hill where barrel is pointing looks ~ 500m away. Top is about 1.2-1.4km. I highly doubt that you are hitting anything 1.2km away.
As i look at it longer, bottom looks like 3-400m away and top somewhere around 800-1km away... That pic is deceiving.
Top of the hill is 980 yards shot back from the top to the truck with a rangefinder.
There is a 300 yard dip in the middle you can't see also almost a canyon.
There is actualy a fence near the top that a naked eye can hardly see . There is a dead p dog out there at over 800 yards.

Point is were that was taken guys were saying Pdogs at 250 yards were 400 and do on.

I'd love to post some better pics in here.
I'll get on that when I get a computer back at the house.
I hope to soon .
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:12 PM   #133
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I'd like to see at least a couple of the hundreds of rifles you've swapped calibers and made target barrels on biggun.

You speak of them so much, but never share these low MOA masterpieces.
Quit being selfish and share them, damn.
Not hundreds a few dozen.
Yes I need to post pictures of some work.
Lot of stuff on Gunco and some on weapons guild if there not delted on WG.
A lot of my pics got list when GUNCO did a redo of its sight and the links are dead. I'm told if something is typed before the link they can be seen. The Site is down to about 4 guys due to many reasons.
I'd really like to get these two finished .
The barrels will swap out meaning two guns about 20 barrels.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...5&d=1467341218

And

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...8&d=1445387068
My goal is under 1/2" with the 6mm BRX in a good barrel.
My goals and income don't agree.
This may be my last AK accuracy build so I want to give it my all.

The one trunion is threaded 1"-16 so if machined in the correct order a winchester or ruger 77 barrel will screw in as will a AR 10 barrel.
I'm hoping to shoot one barrel on all three rifles with same ammo and optics.
Threads will need to be first for a AR 10 barrel extension then for my Ruger M77 with a 14oz trigger that has won a few shoots by the previous owner then finney long enough for the AK trunion.

I can also just found a barrel nut and shoot it on as ll three but the AR 10 might be with no gas .

I'd like to show what differances the actions make.

It's down the road aways. This and other projects are stalked from a new job three years ago and other personal things.

Both rifles are m70 of RPK based and are sitting on the kitchen table littetaly.

The other trunion with the fluted barrel will take the 1 1/16" -166 thread remington 700 and the majority of benchrest actions take.
It will be used for 308 length rounds.
I really want a 3 lug Saiga or Vepr 308 bolt for this project.
I'll be able to take a pre chambered and threaded remington 700 ot benchrest barrel and by carrying the threads and shoulder forward be able to shoot it on this build.
This allows pulled barrels if a 6mm PPC or 6mm br to be used with some normal machine work.

Last edited by 1biggun; 12-09-2017 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:18 PM   #134
1biggun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
^ You make a good point. My only rebuttal is that almost nothing within 500km of me looks anything close to that so its not a subject I even considered. If I had to guess based on the picture, 500meters

Can we have a better picture of that rifle? Looks like a neat setup
Not much better but a side view from the same place the other pic was from

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...6&d=1453766595

26 savage heavy barrel in 223 on a Tapco bent flat . Custom RSB,GB AND rail. Adjustable trigger mod
Cheap as plastic stock with the top milled off for a aluminum riser.
It's a screw build. Same reciver has had a few front ends on it.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:47 PM   #135
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[QUOTE=ugroza;4360745]Big, you will have to come up with a better pic. Form the 1st glance, bottom of that hill where barrel is pointing looks ~ 500m away. Top is about 1.2-1.4km. I highly doubt that you are hitting anything 1.2km away.
As i look at it longer, bottom looks like 3-400m away and top somewhere around 800-1km away... That

Damn you can spot fir me any day . That's 896 meters so if you can figure that from a shit picture your better than me.

Here is a P dog at about 800 yards and it looks that bad th t Pugh a $100 BSA scope to
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...5&d=1453766131

I actually hit it ( finally )
Wind was moving me about 12 feet to the right.
Trick is aim high figure range from dust and adjust.
Shoot low the head for the hole.
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Old 12-09-2017, 04:51 PM   #136
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http://www.akfiles.com/forums/attach...3&d=1453765993

At 300 yards this has seconds to live.
Out of a accurate AK build it's a given hit if there is no wind.
Same with a good AR or bolt gun.
That's likely shot at 12x so you can see the hit.
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