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Old 12-03-2017, 11:08 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by PORTER View Post
Being honest I got into the AK about 4 years ago once my appreciation of quality firearms started. Before then I wouldn't own one for the reasons I stated. Your correct that some opinions can be changed, but there are far more Americans that will never have a desire to own one. The prices AKs are selling for right now will not last when you can have a well built AR for less. And it seems that the price market for ARs should be here for a while.
I go to my local club and the WMA Range and see literally nobody with an AK. I was guilty of striking up conversations with gun enthusiasts who I assumed would be literate in AK's only to be met with dumb stares. AK owners are a very small minority of all gun owners in the US.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:35 PM   #72
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What makes an American AK suck? The thought that a bunch of Capitalists can build a Communist gun, and turn a profit.
many here including myself would gladly pay for 1200$ for a quality made to spec ak-74 or akm clone from a u.s maker but we are a small minority, companies like i.o and century sell to bubba who is stuck in 1993 and thinks aks are "cheap cummie gunz" and refuses to pay over 600$ for one but gladly spends 2 grand on a ar, sadly this is the majority, also these people never shoot more than 300 rounds a year so their shitury tRASh-47 last for a while before it explodes.


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Old 12-03-2017, 11:39 PM   #73
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Just because I want to say I own a quality AK that was manufactured in the USA, I was a huge supporter of DDI.

To say they let me down and the debacle that ensued after their demise really crushed my hope that a quality American made AK can be made.

Time will tell.

I keep watched the Riley Defense threads. Maybe, just maybe their is still a faint ember of hope that a quality US made AK is a possibility.

But I'm not going to hold my breath.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:08 AM   #74
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C39v2 MOE
$699 with a $100 rebate


Polish AK Bolt *Brand New Production* Fits most AK & AKM-47's & fully machined $79.95
WBP Polish AK47 Bolt Carrier *brand new production fully machined w/ black oxide finish* Full Auto or Semi Auto w/ gas piston ON SALE! 1 $89.95
Subtotal: $169.90
Shipping & Handling: $10.55
Tax: $0.00

Order Total: $180.45

Milled AK with zero problems

$780

If you have lemons make lemonade.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:44 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNed View Post
C39v2 MOE
$699 with a $100 rebate


Polish AK Bolt *Brand New Production* Fits most AK & AKM-47's & fully machined $79.95
WBP Polish AK47 Bolt Carrier *brand new production fully machined w/ black oxide finish* Full Auto or Semi Auto w/ gas piston ON SALE! 1 $89.95
Subtotal: $169.90
Shipping & Handling: $10.55
Tax: $0.00

Order Total: $180.45

Milled AK with zero problems

$780

If you have lemons make lemonade.
Not all American lol
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:55 AM   #76
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It's OK. I have gotten a lot of use out of stuff other people have thrown away over the years.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:09 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNed View Post
C39v2 MOE
$699 with a $100 rebate


Polish AK Bolt *Brand New Production* Fits most AK & AKM-47's & fully machined $79.95
WBP Polish AK47 Bolt Carrier *brand new production fully machined w/ black oxide finish* Full Auto or Semi Auto w/ gas piston ON SALE! 1 $89.95
Subtotal: $169.90
Shipping & Handling: $10.55
Tax: $0.00

Order Total: $180.45

Milled AK with zero problems

$780

If you have lemons make lemonade.
Still a turd, no matter how much polishing you do.

I want a QUALITY US made AK.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:27 AM   #78
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I want a rifle that works for as little as possible. I got one.

I have been on a roll recently. I got a 320rx that is at SIG getting fixed. An M&P Shield that the slide lock actually locked the slide. I fixed that in the garage. I got a C39v2 in that magic period where they were thought to be OK. My bolt went bad in under 400 rounds. Saved by the internet.
My new Ruger GP-100 has been flawless.

Buy revolvers. Everything else sucks

WOOHOO
Sig Sauer Inc. is pleased to inform you that the following shipment left the factory today and will arrive at your place soon.

Last edited by WVNed; 12-04-2017 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:47 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by WVNed View Post
I want a rifle that works for as little as possible. I got one.

I have been on a roll recently. I got a 320rx that is at SIG getting fixed. An M&P Shield that the slide lock actually locked the slide. I fixed that in the garage. I got a C39v2 in that magic period where they were thought to be OK. My bolt went bad in under 400 rounds. Saved by the internet.
My new Ruger GP-100 has been flawless.

Buy revolvers. Everything else sucks

WOOHOO
Sig Sauer Inc. is pleased to inform you that the following shipment left the factory today and will arrive at your place soon.
It's pretty seldom you see a GP that's screwed up. It's usually the result of something very stupid happening. Or just an accidental double charge.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:22 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WVNed View Post
C39v2 MOE
$699 with a $100 rebate


Polish AK Bolt *Brand New Production* Fits most AK & AKM-47's & fully machined $79.95
WBP Polish AK47 Bolt Carrier *brand new production fully machined w/ black oxide finish* Full Auto or Semi Auto w/ gas piston ON SALE! 1 $89.95
Subtotal: $169.90
Shipping & Handling: $10.55
Tax: $0.00

Order Total: $180.45

Milled AK with zero problems

$780

If you have lemons make lemonade.


Rob Ski had chips coming out of one of the locking lugs on his C39V2. There's been a lot of talk that those are machined out of inferior imported steel. if the receiver is chipping from a soft bolt, then that think would explode with a properly made bolt.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:19 PM   #81
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I go to my local club and the WMA Range and see literally nobody with an AK. I was guilty of striking up conversations with gun enthusiasts who I assumed would be literate in AK's only to be met with dumb stares. AK owners are a very small minority of all gun owners in the US.
Same around my local gun ranges etc. IF/when I goto the local ranges I hardly ever see anybody with an AK, usually if I see anybody with one its in the backwoods areas I go to. I have all the AKs I need and wont be buying anymore till prices come way down where they should be, its the time to buy ARs and ammo to feed my firearms because of the cost.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:25 PM   #82
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Rob Ski had chips coming out of one of the locking lugs on his C39V2. There's been a lot of talk that those are machined out of inferior imported steel. if the receiver is chipping from a soft bolt, then that think would explode with a properly made bolt.
I saw that. Mine isn't doing that. There is no erosion on the end of the side rail either.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:07 PM   #83
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This thread reminded me of my buddy who is into guns....well AR's....he "wants" an AK but since he ever said he wanted one..he has built like 2 AR's in 7.62x39...now he is not using top notch components(in my opinion )...more like...Hardened Arms....Radical....etc....but my point I guess as to cost with some buyers ....he knows he can spend $50 out of every pay check basically on a part here or their to build and assmeble an AR..and that's probably more attractive to him and thousands others than all of a sudden plopping down $600++ for an AK...
I don't help matters much for him...telling him to stray from US AK's...and find something imported...a WASR...etc...they've been building AK"s for decades compared to any US manufacturer..
Also he doesn't know much at all about AK's since he doesn't have one...kinda like me at first..
When I first got my M10...I didn't realize the differences in AK's...Combloc manufacturing companies...etc..
When u acquiring something new you usually get it for whatever reason...then get online and research it more and become more.engrossed with it...at least that's what happened with me...
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:58 PM   #84
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Wrong dude. C39 has a cast receiver, completely different animal than the real deal.
yep cast in Korea or India with god knows what steel than shipped here and machined to finish
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:00 PM   #85
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wont be buying anymore till prices come way down where they should be, its the time to buy ARs and ammo to feed my firearms because of the cost.
So pray tell where should AK prices be?

You do know inflation is a thing right? That $300-$400 in 1980's money is $600-$700 in 2017 today which is what your average WASR is going for with NPAP's going for less.

You say you got your AK's for less back in the 1990's? Great, that was the 1990's. Same situation applies.

Not only that you are ignoring demand which is a thing. You even mentioned in your circles how unpopular AK's are, imagine how much even less popular they were back then. They were cheap back then cause no one wanted them even up until 10 years ago.

Thanks to the internet, Obama, gun forums, video games, etc. the AK demand has gone up significantly coupled with sanctions and bans that will never go away reflects the current price and value(which for a WASR is the same as what a Chinese AK was going for in the 1980's value wise).

Your less than $300 AK prices are never coming back even if all the sanctions and bans went away.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:29 PM   #86
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I feel bad for any noob that falls for the century "milled receiver" lie. Not sure why anyone would spend a dime on polish parts for these when they could sell them and move on. People tell themselves whatever they want to hear...
They do indeed.

LOL

"These AKs are good. Those Aks are junk."

next month

"No those Aks are junk buy these other AKs."
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:35 PM   #87
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I feel bad for any noob that falls for the century "milled receiver" lie. Not sure why anyone would spend a dime on polish parts for these when they could sell them and move on. People tell themselves whatever they want to hear...
also the whole "american made" thing is a scam as well, it's american assembled with Asian parts , if you are going to buy a american assembled gun why not just get a builder to build one for you out of a parts kit
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:56 PM   #88
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So pray tell where should AK prices be?

You do know inflation is a thing right? That $300-$400 in 1980's money is $600-$700 in 2017 today which is what your average WASR is going for with NPAP's going for less.

You say you got your AK's for less back in the 1990's? Great, that was the 1990's. Same situation applies.

Not only that you are ignoring demand which is a thing. You even mentioned in your circles how unpopular AK's are, imagine how much even less popular they were back then. They were cheap back then cause no one wanted them even up until 10 years ago.

Thanks to the internet, Obama, gun forums, video games, etc. the AK demand has gone up significantly coupled with sanctions and bans that will never go away reflects the current price and value(which for a WASR is the same as what a Chinese AK was going for in the 1980's value wise).

Your less than $300 AK prices are never coming back even if all the sanctions and bans went away.
Scott, im not Porter and you are 1000 X more knowledgeable with AKs than i am.
What i believe hes saying is prices like Arsenal for example.
Arsenal's have the same shitty fit and finish, cant this and that and so on yet cost $100's more than the $600 WASR with the same issues.
One thing that pisses off many including those thinking about getting a AK is the famous poor workmanship on those rifles. Its stopped me from ordering online as the one Arsenal i did order came in fucked up and had canted sights.
Most peeps who pay $1000 plus for a rifle are not gonna deal with a piss poor finish and canted sights, gas blocks and so on.
IMO with the AK's lack of popularity when compared to the AR, the AK in general should never cost more than $850 or so unless its milled and upgraded.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:09 PM   #89
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So pray tell where should AK prices be?

You do know inflation is a thing right? That $300-$400 in 1980's money is $600-$700 in 2017 today which is what your average WASR is going for with NPAP's going for less.

You say you got your AK's for less back in the 1990's? Great, that was the 1990's. Same situation applies.

Not only that you are ignoring demand which is a thing. You even mentioned in your circles how unpopular AK's are, imagine how much even less popular they were back then. They were cheap back then cause no one wanted them even up until 10 years ago.

Thanks to the internet, Obama, gun forums, video games, etc. the AK demand has gone up significantly coupled with sanctions and bans that will never go away reflects the current price and value(which for a WASR is the same as what a Chinese AK was going for in the 1980's value wise).

Your less than $300 AK prices are never coming back even if all the sanctions and bans went away.
Not sure if inflation plays a part here but I definitely understand where you going with it.. Fact is the price on ARs has come down atleast 200 on entry level ARs, and even more on the mid to high name brands. I wouldn't count on 300 dollar AKs ever again but to believe that prices could get to the low 500s on new wasr10s are not out of the realm due to what were seeing in the AR world. Fact is the AK is much cheaper to make and if there not selling very well due to people investing in other rifles at some point prices will come down how low who knows. I am seeing it in the used market as I routinely see wasr10s for 450 used where 6-8 months ago used were over 650. I didn't get into Aks till about 4 years ago so I paid a premium for my Arsenals but it is what it is. I bet prices will slowly fall and already have since the Don took office but that's my opinion. Well see.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:12 PM   #90
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Scott, im not Porter and you are 1000 X more knowledgeable with AKs than i am.
What i believe hes saying is prices like Arsenal for example.
Arsenal's have the same shitty fit and finish, cant this and that and so on yet cost $100's more than the $600 WASR with the same issues.
One thing that pisses off many including those thinking about getting a AK is the famous poor workmanship on those rifles. Its stopped me from ordering online as the one Arsenal i did order came in fucked up and had canted sights.
Most peeps who pay $1000 plus for a rifle are not gonna deal with a piss poor finish and canted sights, gas blocks and so on.
IMO with the AK's lack of popularity when compared to the AR, the AK in general should never cost more than $850 or so unless its milled and upgraded.
Completely Agree 4mula, pretty much exactly what I was saying.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:42 PM   #91
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Lemons into lemonade or shit into shit.... I suspect you know but will cling to your C39 out of pride.
I will hold onto it because It is a very nice rifle and I have 1200 rounds through it, 700 since I changed the bolt with zero problems.
I see no reason not to keep it. If it blows up and kills me I will have my wife let you know.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:37 PM   #92
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So pray tell where should AK prices be?

You do know inflation is a thing right? That $300-$400 in 1980's money is $600-$700 in 2017 today which is what your average WASR is going for with NPAP's going for less.

You say you got your AK's for less back in the 1990's? Great, that was the 1990's. Same situation applies.

Not only that you are ignoring demand which is a thing. You even mentioned in your circles how unpopular AK's are, imagine how much even less popular they were back then. They were cheap back then cause no one wanted them even up until 10 years ago.

Thanks to the internet, Obama, gun forums, video games, etc. the AK demand has gone up significantly coupled with sanctions and bans that will never go away reflects the current price and value(which for a WASR is the same as what a Chinese AK was going for in the 1980's value wise).

Your less than $300 AK prices are never coming back even if all the sanctions and bans went away.
You could buy a Romy about 2010 for about $300 or less Saigas were cheap then also

Things did not double on these or triple in 7 years I may be a bit off on the date but it wasent that long ago . I paid $175 for a new buy no box Saiga 410 some time around 2010 or so at a gun shop. I should find the receipt.
It was marked down due to no box I remember thinking I saved $50

Inflation may have raised the prices some but its the other stuff you mentioned that raised prices . Shootings, barrel bans on kits , , sanctions and FEAR have driven the prices up mostly . The AK is enjoying a surge from the Preppers and others who think there going to be in a Battle situation or at least like talking about it . There trendy right now but there is a limit to how many guys will spend a grand on a rifle with a $20 barrel and a $5 receiver . Out side the internet most guys can care less about a AK .

There is not a ton of them being brought in any more and that made the supply scarce . There are no cheap kits to for company's here to build to keep importers and distributors honest .
Its pretty hard to get $1000 for a rifle when before the parts could be had for $100 . now that the Internet has shown every tom dick and harry how to build and companys sell the tools to do it and flat bending id almost a lost art kits are sought after . 15 years ago you could barely give them away . I was seeing AK kits for $50 in about 2003 with barrels intact .
no way was a guy going to buy a WASR for $700 back then or even $350 .

Out side the internet most shooters care little about the AK .
the factory ammo most commonly seen makes most AKs a 3 or 4 inch rifle.
Most guys if they have to spend more for ammo that the good stuff cost will go to a 308 rifle in some that is more accurate and likely cheaper now .
Face it you can have a AR 10 tyoe rifle in 308 that will shot 1" easy all day long with basic brass ammo for less than a WASR right now and if you buy good 7.62x39 the shooting cost is about the same .

Im sorry but if I have $700 to spend and I remotely care about accuracy and want some more range and I see a POS WASR with rough finish crooked sights needing a optic mount and will be 1.5" on a good day with good ammo or a AR 10 type that is more accurate and has a much more effective range at about the same weight and 1" capable ammo is the same or less and its ready to take a optic and has about a million aftermarket dodads to buy as well as available spare parts Id have to choose the AR 10 .
now factor in a AR 15 can be built for half the cost and who is lining up to buy a AK 47 for $700 on up ?????? Very few .

I love the AK and I know what I can do with the parts .
But this year and last my $$$$$$ has been going to AR parts in both 15's and 10's and I'm far form the only one .
I have a second AR 10 ready to finsh out . I wont have $450 in it took a lot of careful shopping and its a cheap barrel but I bet it will still be as accurate as a WASR and it will shoot effectively a lot further .

I have a very expensive pile of AK parts sitting here on hold for when AR parts go back up until then Im buying the deals today .

If restrictions lift and we see more AKs coming in the prices will drop some.
I think the AK should be about $425 for a basic WASR .
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:51 PM   #93
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But this year and last my $$$$$$ has been going to AR parts in both 15's and 10's and I'm far form the only one .
Ive been doing the same myself. I just picked up 3 Spikes ST15-LE's @ $725 shipped.
Im personally not into playing lego's with AR's so i buy complete rifles.
I do buy aftermarket parts such as extended charge handles, nitrated gas tubes, drop in quad rails and so on.
My latest thing is to equip all my rifles with optics.
Optic prices have been coming down but all to slow.
I would love to own some ACOG's but i refuse to pay the price of them.

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Out side the internet most shooters care little about the AK .
Amen to above.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:21 PM   #94
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Screw all you AR ppl. Effin traitors.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:28 PM   #95
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why can't people like both?
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:36 PM   #96
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Screw all you AR ppl. Effin traitors.
it's not that i hate the ar but it's fanboys have ruined it for me. ar fanboys seem to be the most rude and trashy people they can be, almost like if you prefer something other than their gun then fuck you, a lot of them don't know what a quality ar build is either and think their dmps oracle is the same as a bcm
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:03 PM   #97
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Amen to that. I like the AR15 just fine. In fact, I grew up shooting my dad's Colt SP1. I didn't get to shoot an AK until I was at least 10.

Thing is, I enjoy collecting semi versions of military issue type guns....goes back to that whole love of history thing.
So for the AR15, I could do an early 601/602, M16A1, M16A2, XM177 or GAU-5, M4 and M4A1 (SOCOM style), M16A4, and some less common things like the USMC 9mm SMG and MK18 Mod 0.
That's a few different models and types, but then look at the AK....each nation that built it, built several variants and subvariants.

The result is today I have 7 or 8 ARs and feel like I have pretty much all the big bases covered.
AKs though? I have 35-36 of them and am still lacking many key models.

The AK is just more interesting from a collecting stand point with so many flavors.

This is also why I like the FAL so much. Dozens of distinct variants with it too.

In my mind, a good AR15 is better for a SHTF situation.
It is lighter, more comfortable/ergonomic, easier to effectively mount an optic onto, easier and cheaper to find spare parts, easier and cheaper magazines, very common and lightweight cartridge, and in my experience a good AR15 is every bit as reliable as a good AK.

Worried about your AR's bolt breaking? Then don't buy shitty parts. Spend the extra money for one that has been MP tested and there's a great chance it will out last you. How many SP1 or LE6920 bolts have you heard of failing?


This year, there have been 2 US companies that I like how they are building their AKs....Atlantic Firearms and Legion USA. Both are using good quality parts and putting them together with a lot of thought & care.
Also both use a good number of foreign parts, especially the trunnions and bolt groups.

At this time, i see no reason for a 100% USA made AK. Foreign parts are still available at reasonable prices. Why reinvent the wheel?
Import the parts we can, and those we can't; those we do our best to make here.


But if someone wants to buy a C39v2 or RAS47, that's cool. That decision in no way effects me or can hurt me, so its just fine.
If it breaks, it breaks. If it works, it works.
Every company; foreign or domestic can turn out a lemon, and likwise most can make a good rifle.

I don't understand why some people seem to get truely angry over how a stranger decides to spend their hard earned money?
That goes for Arsenal and Century bashers both.

I buy imports or guns built from parts kits. I've given my reasons.
Other people have different reasons and look for different things in what they buy. We're not enemies just because we view the world a bit differently.

As long as they are Pro-2nd and all that, its all good.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:24 PM   #98
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I know, I know, there are 731,594 posts/threads/comments on here about why only Eastern European made stuff is the way to go. Before all you "search for it you idiot" police start whupping up on me, just give me a chance and read this...When you search there is SO much info with so many useless comments thrown in such as "American AKs suck" and tons of technical info from people on here that have forgotten more about this than I'll ever know. So, help those of us who aren't long time "AK people" understand. Please help us understand by using facts instead of "you're an idiot to buy an American made AK." I understand that cast trunnions are one of the issues that cause concern? Beyond the cost reason, why do American manufacturers go that route if they know it's an issue with buyers? What are other things American companies have done that don't work and they wouldn't change their ways? Why don't American companies make AKs in 5.45 and 5.56?
Sorry this is so long but I've been trying to figure this out and the data mass is simply to large on here. I hope some of you that know your shit will help the rest of us again with some education. Thanks!

You have to understand, that American manufacturing don't have experience, and right tooling like Russians, Bulgarians have. US companies don't have military contracts to keep them afloat. So they taking lot of risk and they want to make money of the product. Eastern Europe been doing this for decades. Can US manufacture do it? well that depends how much you willing to spend on rifle. For US manufacture to build rifle from scratch per specs and build forged trunnion and bolt and other parts, will cost much more money then for Bulgarians or Russians or Romanians. Labor and manufacturing does cost considerable more in US. So rifle would cost more then $1200 for US version to be build per specs, but US manufacture know that people will not spend that kind of money on AK. A lot people think AK is just cheap rifle to shoot. They not passionate like me or people here on this platform. So to build rifle and make money at price range people will buy, they have to cut corners and we all know where quality goes.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:28 PM   #99
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Actually there is a growth and a transition into producing good firearms or parts it seems.
Small companies that do not have test facilities, large order and military trials are generally in a hurry to get product to market.

Most larger companies have not embraced AK type production to any degree.

Having said that there are several things that have occurred.

Receiver production- over time the quality and players and features of the receivers has improved and today there are USA receivers that are equal to any imported or milspec receivers.

Barrel production- over time barrel production, quality and choices of fini8sh and caliber have reached a point where quality products are available.
One of the impediments is the commbloc deviations in barrel component parts which creates issues for barrel producers in terms of journal specs. The commbloc method of wide range specs in barrel journal sizes is a PITA for production.

Furniture Production- there is a fair amount of quality furniture available for installing on AK firearms

Gas pistons, FCG and muzzle devices - a good source for all these items and many muzzle devices.

There is a lacking of quality and proven performance in the primary "action" components of the trunnion, carrier and bolt.

As far as economically competitive with imports., that is another story. Time will tell.
But as example a sub $600 +/- shooter grade AR15 is readily available. It would seem an AK pattern rifle production cost could follow this path.
Ak is much more harder to build then AR. AK easier to maintain and use, but building is different story
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:37 PM   #100
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why can't people like both?
They can, lol. I'm guilty....

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Old 12-04-2017, 11:37 PM   #101
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it's not that i hate the ar but it's fanboys have ruined it for me. ar fanboys seem to be the most rude and trashy people they can be, almost like if you prefer something other than their gun then fuck you, a lot of them don't know what a quality ar build is either and think their dmps oracle is the same as a bcm
Theres snobs in every hobby. Theres plenty of AK fanboys on this site that talk shit about AR's.
Both are great rifles that have their pros and cons. No reason to hate one or the other.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:43 PM   #102
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They can, lol. I'm guilty....

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Now ya need a model minus the handle
While your at it, a middy AR also would be good for the collection
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Old 12-05-2017, 12:18 AM   #103
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You're an idiot.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH....I couldn't read further to your thread dawg...The OP specifically done told you and everyone on here not to call him an idiot and what did you do?


AKBlue: Infront of you is a Maadi Styer AKM for $600 and CAI CV39 for $200 pesos and I.O. -free

Which one would you buy?
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:47 AM   #104
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None, its a trick question.

Its a Federale trap!
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:39 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by 4mula View Post
Now ya need a model minus the handle
While your at it, a middy AR also would be good for the collection
Oh yeah, I been done that.

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